From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs Date: Wed, 06 May 2020 22:44:44 -0400 Message-ID: References: <0c88192c-3c33-46ed-95cb-b4c6928016e3@default> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="88447"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com, pcr910303@icloud.com, dgutov@yandex.ru, eliz@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Philippe Vaucher Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 07 04:45:54 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jWWXq-000MuI-JD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 May 2020 04:45:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44518 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWWXp-0002CN-JU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 22:45:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:32914) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWWWw-0001DZ-Bh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 May 2020 22:44:58 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41874) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jWWWw-0005eb-0C; Wed, 06 May 2020 22:44:58 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jWWWi-0002ar-C1; Wed, 06 May 2020 22:44:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Philippe Vaucher on Wed, 6 May 2020 16:04:56 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249139 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Richard, Eli: please decide wether you want s.el into ELPA or not. In its current form, I think it would be a grave mistake to include s.el in ELPA. Its purpose is to make Emacs Lisp mimic object-oriented languages which are alien to Emacs Lisp. See my message to Stefan for a change that would make s.sl ok to add. > I'm not sure why there's this sudden turnaround on this issue, maybe > I'm missing something. I don't think there was a turnaround. We never decided to include s.el in GNU ELPA. Before yesterday, we were talking about a different question: whether to adopt the s.el functions and their names in Emacs Lisp. When I saw concretely what those actually were, I said no. Then yesterday I saw a message proposing to include s.el in ELPA, and _presuming_ that that was ok. I responded no, saying that it would send Emacs Lisp down the same wrong path. We should not have code in Emacs that uses string-prepend instead of concat. We should fix that code to use concat. > This is a bit embarassing for me to have done the work of getting > magnars to agree to put it there just to be refused at the last > minute, I am sorry for your disappointment, because I feel for your eagerness to make a change you consider an improvement. But we have to make the decision that is right. There is no need for you to feel embarrassed. The people you talked with will understand that there is no reason to blame or criticize you for this. Meanwhile, maybe we could include it with some changes, as clostring.el. Please see my message to Stefan. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)