From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: High-res Customize icons Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:30:53 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87k127fd03.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <20200423.061101.167407195680152265.wl@gnu.org> <83r1wecl04.fsf@gnu.org> <20200423.194951.1783852521294813912.wl@gnu.org> <834ktac89t.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="98799"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: casouri@gmail.com, yuri.v.khan@gmail.com, cpitclaudel@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, yandros@gmail.com, juri@linkov.net To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 25 05:31:53 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jSBXl-000PbQ-8r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 05:31:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57360 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSBXk-0005ow-8I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:31:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38052) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSBWt-0004nC-PR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:31:00 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46068) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSBWs-00010R-Pl; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:30:58 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jSBWn-000640-5s; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 23:30:53 -0400 In-Reply-To: <834ktac89t.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Thu, 23 Apr 2020 22:27:26 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247737 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > That's not exactly why I asked whether it's a good idea. I'm asking > whether it's a good idea to use characters as if they were small > images. Could you state the issue more clearly? In an abstract sense, a glyph IS a small image. You know that, so I suppose you refer to some more specific, concrete issue, perhaps related specifically to how Emacs redisplay works? Could you please spell out that issue? That is not what fonts were designed for, If lots of programs use fonts for that job, I think we can conclude their design is suitable for it. and that is > definitely not what font-selection code in Emacs was designed for. That could be an important issue. I think it would depend on just where Emacs would display the images, and for what purpose. If they would appear within lines of text, I think it would not be hard to change Emacs to display them more or less as if they were characters. That doesn't mean they have to be like characters at the level of strings or buffers. However, if they are not like characters at that level, we would need to design some other Lisp-level spec for them. > > To conform to the standard, glyphs that are not in Unicode would be > > put into the PUA (Private User Area), again ensuring that there are no > > conflicts with other applications. At what levels in the code of Emacs would it be necessary to use the PUA? Would this be limited to communication with other components of the operating system, such as Xlib or GTK? If so, I think it would not be a problem for Emacs to do this, if it is commonplace for other programs to do this. Or would this have to extend up into other levels of Emacs? > I'm very much against using PUA codepoints for this purpose (or any > purpose, really) in Emacs. Could you explain? To say nothing of the fact that we > currently simply cannot. That's a non-starter, from my POV. What is the obstacle? I think the key question is which levels of Emacs the obstacle applies to. Would the obstacle preclude using PUA characters for low-level communication with Xlib or comparable libraries? If not, maybe we could represent the icons and emojis some other way at higher levels. It might be ok to do this with image files, but before rejecting the idea of doing this with fonts, let's look at it carefully. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)