From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 22:18:44 -0400 Message-ID: References: <863691n4xl.wl-me@enzu.ru> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="27501"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: joseph.h.garvin@gmail.com, stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, eliz@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, ndame@protonmail.com To: Ahmed Khanzada Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 19 04:19:31 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jPzYR-00073V-7f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 04:19:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36494 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jPzYQ-0005l5-9f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 22:19:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57752) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jPzXi-0005Im-91 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 22:18:48 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:44418) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jPzXh-0001rv-Qp; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 22:18:45 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jPzXg-0003tH-MT; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 22:18:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: <863691n4xl.wl-me@enzu.ru> (message from Ahmed Khanzada on Fri, 17 Apr 2020 15:05:58 -0700) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247258 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] I think you've stated the arguments very well. There are a couple of points where I would say something less strong. > 3. If Emacs was to become a "modern" app tomorrow, an editor extended > in Lisp still only has appeal for a minority of programmers, much like > the Lisp language itself. Most programmers looking for easy and modern > experiences will likely stick with Atom and Sublime. If Emacs were 100% as convenient and attractive as other editors, it is possible that a lot of users would use it. 30 years ago, the user profile of Emacs was much broader than it is today. It would be good to make this happen again. But that would require a number of changes, and I don't think that round corners would get us close to there. Thus, I think your point 3 is not valid in the universal sense that it is presented in, but it is valid for the this particular issue. If there are people who want to work on rounded corners, and assuming they do a good job, I won't argue against it. But if you want to attract more users to Emacs, I think there are more important areas for improvement. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)