Re: First draft of the Emacs website

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[H.Tsurumoto]

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Hi Everyone, I think very nice design too.

By the way, I tried to access this web site by Firefox with LibreJS,
it blocked "animation.js <http://animation.js>" and "jquery.min.js
<http://jquery.min.js>".

"animation.js <http://animation.js>" was licensed by GPLv3+, but LibreJS
didn't detect the license.

Someone know how to solve this problem?


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Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[David Kastrup]

"H.Tsurumoto" <fortune.rocket42@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Everyone, I think very nice design too.
>
> By the way, I tried to access this web site by Firefox with LibreJS,
> it blocked "animation.js <http://animation.js>" and "jquery.min.js
> <http://jquery.min.js>".
>
> "animation.js <http://animation.js>" was licensed by GPLv3+, but LibreJS
> didn't detect the license.
>
> Someone know how to solve this problem?

Frankly, my preferred approach for solving problems with JavaScript
animations would be license-agnostic.  I don't want web pages to change
while I am looking at them.  If the content is not important enough to
stay until I (rather than the script) am finished with it, it is not
important enough to be there in the first place.

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Nicolas Petton]

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"H.Tsurumoto" <fortune.rocket42@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Everyone, I think very nice design too.
>
> By the way, I tried to access this web site by Firefox with LibreJS,
> it blocked "animation.js <http://animation.js>" and "jquery.min.js
> <http://jquery.min.js>".
>
> "animation.js <http://animation.js>" was licensed by GPLv3+, but LibreJS
> didn't detect the license.

No clue.  And BTW, jQuery is also free software.

Nico

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Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Random832]

On 2015-12-02, David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote:
> Frankly, my preferred approach for solving problems with JavaScript
> animations would be license-agnostic.  I don't want web pages to change
> while I am looking at them.  If the content is not important enough to
> stay until I (rather than the script) am finished with it, it is not
> important enough to be there in the first place.

As far as I can tell, the mockup page only uses animation for smooth
transitions into (acceptably subtle) hover states, smooth scrolling
after clicking internal links, etc.

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[David Kastrup]

Random832 <random832@fastmail.com> writes:

> On 2015-12-02, David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote:
>> Frankly, my preferred approach for solving problems with JavaScript
>> animations would be license-agnostic.  I don't want web pages to change
>> while I am looking at them.  If the content is not important enough to
>> stay until I (rather than the script) am finished with it, it is not
>> important enough to be there in the first place.
>
> As far as I can tell, the mockup page only uses animation for smooth
> transitions into (acceptably subtle) hover states, smooth scrolling
> after clicking internal links, etc.

The browser is in control of the client's computing resources,
compositing managing, window rendition, realtime.  If it (or the user
settings controlling it) or the page description language does not
consider animating changes a good idea, the web page author is not
really in a position to know better.

The user has nothing to gain from every web page inventing its own
human-computer interface.  The whole point of HTML is to package content
in a way where the rendition is matched to the platform's capabilities.

-- 
David Kastrup

RE: First draft of the Emacs website

[Drew Adams]

> The user has nothing to gain from every web page inventing its own
> human-computer interface.  The whole point of HTML is to package content
> in a way where the rendition is matched to the platform's capabilities.

Well put.

(Not a comment on the new Emacs page.)

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Nicolas Petton]

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David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:

> The browser is in control of the client's computing resources,
> compositing managing, window rendition, realtime.  If it (or the user
> settings controlling it) or the page description language does not
> consider animating changes a good idea, the web page author is not
> really in a position to know better.

> The user has nothing to gain from every web page inventing its own
> human-computer interface.

Oh my gosh, the entire www has been wrong all this time!

On a more serious note, animations have been well defined in the CSS
standard for years[1], as well as through very common JS libraries[2],
SVG animations[3], the HTML Canvas, etc.

All of these are part of the web stack of every graphical web browser
out there, I didn't invent anything here.

> The whole point of HTML is to package content in a way where the
> rendition is matched to the platform's capabilities.

Come on, you very well know that HTML is about the content. Formatting,
appearance, animations and such should be handled in CSS, JS, etc.

Cheers,
Nico

[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-transitions/
[2] http://api.jquery.com/animate/
[3] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/animate.html

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Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[David Kastrup]

Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> The browser is in control of the client's computing resources,
>> compositing managing, window rendition, realtime.  If it (or the user
>> settings controlling it) or the page description language does not
>> consider animating changes a good idea, the web page author is not
>> really in a position to know better.
>
>> The user has nothing to gain from every web page inventing its own
>> human-computer interface.
>
> Oh my gosh, the entire www has been wrong all this time!

Not the "entire www", but yes, a good deal of it has been a nuisance.
Partly to the degree where pages are simply unusable because of invalid
assumptions about the human-computer interface.  There is a reason ad
blockers are widely used in order to systematically deal with some of
the worst misconceptions of page authors about their users' needs.

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Yuri Khan]

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:42 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:

> Oh my gosh, the entire www has been wrong all this time!

And we have known that all this time.

> Come on, you very well know that HTML is about the content. Formatting,
> appearance, animations and such should be handled in CSS, JS, etc.

Yes, and CSS, JS and WOFF constitute programs. And programs should be
subject to the four Freedoms, at least if served from a FSF’s site.
Right?

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Nicolas Petton]

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Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> writes:

> Yes, and CSS, JS and WOFF constitute programs. And programs should be
> subject to the four Freedoms, at least if served from a FSF’s site.
> Right?

I don't understand your point.  They are, or am I missing something?

I wrote the JS file myself, and the copyright is even assigned to the
FSF:
http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/javascript/animations.js

Nico

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Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[David Kastrup]

Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Yes, and CSS, JS and WOFF constitute programs. And programs should be
>> subject to the four Freedoms, at least if served from a FSF’s site.
>> Right?
>
> I don't understand your point.  They are, or am I missing something?

You are missing that the thread length has surpassed the message
horizon.  That means that people's and web archives' memories of it have
diverged.  Yuri is talking about something entirely different from what
you are talking about, but both of you try interpreting the respective
other's mails in the context you consider relevant.

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Nicolas Petton]

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David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:

> There is a reason ad blockers are widely used in order to
> systematically deal with some of the worst misconceptions of page
> authors about their users' needs.

Is my Emacs website so wrong because I added transitions to anchors?  I
really wonder why Firefox has JS support at all.

Ads on the web (as well as tracking) are a huge annoyance, but it's
totally unrelated to my animations (which degrades to regular anchors
BTW on browsers with no JS support).

Have you turned on `trolling-mode' today?

I'm sorry but I won't participate in this discussion anymore.
Nico

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Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Yuri Khan]

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:57 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:

>> Yes, and CSS, JS and WOFF constitute programs. And programs should be
>> subject to the four Freedoms, at least if served from a FSF’s site.
>> Right?
>
> I don't understand your point.  They are, or am I missing something?
>
> I wrote the JS file myself, and the copyright is even assigned to the
> FSF:
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/javascript/animations.js

AFAIR this subthread started from someone saying animations.js is not
detected as Free by a browser extension which would facilitate
exercising the freedom to modify.

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Random832]

On 2015-12-02, Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, and CSS, JS and WOFF constitute programs. And programs should be
> subject to the four Freedoms, at least if served from a FSF’s site.
> Right?

A summary of the discussion to this point:

- The page uses a script to enable animations.
- That script is in fact licensed under GPLv3
  - And uses jQuery, which is in fact licensed under the MIT license.
- The scripts fail to have whatever metadata is necessary for LibreJS to
  detect it as such.
  - No-one has objected to making whatever changes are necessary to
    rectify this situation.
- Someone did object to the entire concept of animation, irrespective of
  the use of free software to produce the animations.

I'm not sure how your point is relevant in response to any of this.

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[David Engster]

Nicolas Petton writes:
> "H.Tsurumoto" <fortune.rocket42@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi Everyone, I think very nice design too.
>>
>> By the way, I tried to access this web site by Firefox with LibreJS,
>> it blocked "animation.js <http://animation.js>" and "jquery.min.js
>> <http://jquery.min.js>".
>>
>> "animation.js <http://animation.js>" was licensed by GPLv3+, but LibreJS
>> didn't detect the license.
>
> No clue.

It seems jslibre is pretty picky what kind of license blurbs it expects
at the top [1].

However, you can use the rel=jslicense attribute. See

  https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/rel-jslicense

-David

[1] https://fossies.org/dox/librejs-6.0.10/license__definitions_8js_source.html

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > "animation.js <http://animation.js>" was licensed by GPLv3+, but LibreJS
  > > didn't detect the license.
  > >
  > > Someone know how to solve this problem?

See http://gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html for info on this.
We have two ways to indicate the license of JS code; use whichever
one is more convenient.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

Please minimize JS code in GNU web pages, and make sure the pages work
fully even if JS is disabled.

Everything written in JS is a program, and programs should be free.
All web sites should put free licenses on their JS code, if any.  See
http://gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html.  The sites should also
work with JS disabled.

Thus, if there is any JS code in a GNU web page, it should carry a
free license, and that license should be presented in a way that
LibreJS can recognize.

CSS is not really a programming language.  Yes, someone found a way to
make it Turing-complete, but CSS in ordinary use only specifies
format parameters.

Ordinary use of CSS in GNU web pages is not an ethical issue, but
please keep in mind that some browsers don't process CSS, so please
make sure your pages are readable and clear without the CSS.

I don't know what WOFF is.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Nicolas Petton]

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Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

Hi Richard,

> Please minimize JS code in GNU web pages,

Why? The file is 1.5kB, there's no need to minimize it.  Does LibreJS
require minification?

> and make sure the pages work fully even if JS is disabled.

That's the case already, please try it.

> Thus, if there is any JS code in a GNU web page, it should carry a
> free license,

It does, it's GPL, and the copyright is assigned to the FSF, you can
read the file, it's only 5 small functions:
http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/javascript/animations.js

> and that license should be presented in a way that
> LibreJS can recognize.

Shouldn't LibreJS (a web browser extension, in no way a web standard) be
able to recognize GPL files by itself?

Else it seems to me that this extension does not fit the real world, it
looks like it's even blocking jQuery, probably the most used JS library,
which is MIT.

> Ordinary use of CSS in GNU web pages is not an ethical issue, but
> please keep in mind that some browsers don't process CSS, so please
> make sure your pages are readable and clear without the CSS.

Of course, that will be done!

Thanks for your feedback Richard,
Nico

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Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Alexis]

Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> Please minimize JS code in GNU web pages,
>
> Why? The file is 1.5kB, there's no need to minimize it.  Does 
> LibreJS require minification?

My guess is that Richard meant "Use as little JS code in GNU Web 
pages as possible", not "Use a minifier on the JS source".


Alexis.

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Nicolas Petton]

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Alexis <flexibeast@gmail.com> writes:

>> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>>> Please minimize JS code in GNU web pages,
>>
>> Why? The file is 1.5kB, there's no need to minimize it.  Does 
>> LibreJS require minification?
>
> My guess is that Richard meant "Use as little JS code in GNU Web 
> pages as possible", not "Use a minifier on the JS source".

Ok, I understand now.

Richard, minimizing the use of JS code doesn't look like a viable option
in 2015.

Having free JavaScript code, as well as making sure the website is
functional with no JavaScript makes much more sense to me though, and I
will definitely enforce it in this website.

Nico

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Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > and that license should be presented in a way that
  > > LibreJS can recognize.

  > Shouldn't LibreJS (a web browser extension, in no way a web standard) be
  > able to recognize GPL files by itself?

The only way it can recognize that certain JS code carries a
particular license is if the pages state the license in a mechanically
recognizable way.

With C and Lisp code, only humans check the licenses on those
programs.  Thus, when I worked out the way to state the GPL on source
files, I did not try to make it mechanically recognizable.  But
LibreJS needs to recognize license notices mechanically, so we need to
state the licenses in a format that is mechanically recognizable.

LibreJS knows about some programs specially.  For instance, it
recognizes many versions of Jquery by checksumming the text.  If you
have a standard version of Jquery that it does not recognize, please
report a bug in LibreJS.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > Richard, minimizing the use of JS code doesn't look like a viable option
  > in 2015.

You can try to convince me, but since most of gnu.org uses no JS code
at all, I am very skeptical.  I'm willing to listen to your arguments,
but in the mean time this is our policy.
-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Nicolas Petton]

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Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>   > Richard, minimizing the use of JS code doesn't look like a viable option
>   > in 2015.
>
> You can try to convince me, but since most of gnu.org uses no JS code
> at all, I am very skeptical.  I'm willing to listen to your arguments,
> but in the mean time this is our policy.

We can talk about this, but I think this is off-topic, I'll send you an
email off-list.

Nico

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Re: First draft of the Emacs website

[Nicolas Petton]

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Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> LibreJS knows about some programs specially.  For instance, it
> recognizes many versions of Jquery by checksumming the text.  If you
> have a standard version of Jquery that it does not recognize, please
> report a bug in LibreJS.

I will double-check that.

Nico

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New update of the Emacs website (was Re: First draft of the Emacs website)

[Nicolas Petton]

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Hi guys,

I pushed a new update here:
http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/

Here's a summary of the changes:

- Improve the header on mobile devices, as well as the navigation bar
- Adjusted the fonts following WCAG
- Added a librejs-compatible header to animations.js
- Changed the license to Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 United States
- Removed the duplicated logo from the header (that was there for mobiles)
- Various markup improvements
- Added an href to the "Learn more" anchor
- Added a solid background to theFSF logo
- Checked rendering in lynx and eww

Cheers,
Nico

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Re: New update of the Emacs website (was Re: First draft of the Emacs website)

[Artur Malabarba]

2015-12-04 12:32 GMT+00:00 Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr>:
> Hi guys,
>
> I pushed a new update here:
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/
>

Thanks again Nico. Small bug report:
The ul-items under "Downloads for" and "Releases" display fine on eww,
but the ul-items under "Features" display wrong. They are displayed
with a line break between the * and the text.

Re: New update of the Emacs website (was Re: First draft of the Emacs website)

[Rasmus]

Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> Hi guys,
>
> I pushed a new update here:
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/
>
> Here's a summary of the changes:
>
> - Improve the header on mobile devices, as well as the navigation bar
> - Adjusted the fonts following WCAG
> - Added a librejs-compatible header to animations.js
> - Changed the license to Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 United States
> - Removed the duplicated logo from the header (that was there for mobiles)
> - Various markup improvements
> - Added an href to the "Learn more" anchor
> - Added a solid background to theFSF logo
> - Checked rendering in lynx and eww

It looks amazing, Nicolas!

I have two ’notes’.

I don't care much for the icons used under the features.  Lacking anything
better they are fine, but perhaps something more distinct or informative
could be used?

I’m still find the Release part to stand out too much.  Perhaps because
it’s the only section with a dark font on a light background.  Anyway, I
don’t feel strongly about this issue.

Thanks again.

Rasmus

-- 
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it

Re: New update of the Emacs website (was Re: First draft of the Emacs website)

[Xue Fuqiao]

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On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 8:32 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
> Hi guys,

Hi Nicolas,

> I pushed a new update here:
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/

Thanks for your update!

> - Changed the license to Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 United States

There is a typo (lack "Creative").  I attached a patch to fix this.

BTW, I just discovered that many GNU web pages use Creative Commons
Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License now.

[-- Attachment #2: cc.patch --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 661 bytes --]

*** /var/folders/x4/3c8c7fss7h1982cwjpsxbpf40000gn/T/ediff574SRo	Sat Dec  5 08:21:46 2015
--- /var/folders/x4/3c8c7fss7h1982cwjpsxbpf40000gn/T/ediff574fbu	Sat Dec  5 08:21:46 2015
***************
*** 1,2 ****
! <p>This website is licensed under the <br/> <a href=" https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/us/">Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 United States</a> License.
!                     </p>
\ No newline at end of file
--- 1,3 ----
! <p>This page is licensed under a <a rel="license"
! href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/">Creative
! Commons Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License</a>.</p>
\ No newline at end of file

Re: New update of the Emacs website (was Re: First draft of the Emacs website)

[Christopher Allan Webber]

Nicolas Petton writes:

> Hi guys,
>
> I pushed a new update here:
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/
>
> Here's a summary of the changes:
>
> - Improve the header on mobile devices, as well as the navigation bar
> - Adjusted the fonts following WCAG
> - Added a librejs-compatible header to animations.js
> - Changed the license to Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 United States

Would it be possible for the emacs website to be CC BY-SA 4.0 instead?

Some benefits:
 - It's combinable with various other free cultural works
 - It's one-way compatible with the GNU GPL v3

I've never much agreed with the motivation for the ND usage for works of
opinion, but I'm not sure there's much "work of opinion" to defend
against misrepresentation on such a website as this anyway.

Re: New update of the Emacs website (was Re: First draft of the Emacs website)

[Karl Fogel]

Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber@dustycloud.org> writes:
>Would it be possible for the emacs website to be CC BY-SA 4.0 instead?
>
>Some benefits:
> - It's combinable with various other free cultural works
> - It's one-way compatible with the GNU GPL v3
>
>I've never much agreed with the motivation for the ND usage for works of
>opinion, but I'm not sure there's much "work of opinion" to defend
>against misrepresentation on such a website as this anyway.

+1 to everything Christopher says.  CC-BY-SA would be a good license for the Emacs web site.

Re: New update of the Emacs website (was Re: First draft of the Emacs website)

[Nicolas Petton]

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Christopher Allan Webber <cwebber@dustycloud.org> writes:

> Nicolas Petton writes:
>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> I pushed a new update here:
>> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/emacs-website/
>>
>> Here's a summary of the changes:
>>
>> - Improve the header on mobile devices, as well as the navigation bar
>> - Adjusted the fonts following WCAG
>> - Added a librejs-compatible header to animations.js
>> - Changed the license to Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 United States
>
> Would it be possible for the emacs website to be CC BY-SA 4.0 instead?

Sure thing, no problem with me.

Nico

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Re: New update of the Emacs website (was Re: First draft of the Emacs website)

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > Would it be possible for the emacs website to be CC BY-SA 4.0 instead?

No.  The pages that are documentation, or teach practical knowledge,
should be under the GNU Free Documentation License.  That is our
standard license for manuals and textbooks.

CC-SA is not compatible with the GFDL, so it should not be used for
GNU documentation.

Pages that aren't educational works should be under CC-ND, which is
our standard license for statements of views.

This is the GNU Project standard.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: New update of the Emacs website (was Re: First draft of the Emacs website)

[H.Tsurumoto]

Hi Richard.

I have a question.
Can't we apply Dual-License for New Emacs website?

Example
* CC BY-SA 4.0 International  License (or any later version)
* GNU Free Documentation License 1.3(or any later version) with no 
Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts.

Now, CC BY-SA 4.0 have one-way compatibility with GPLv3, so we can cover 
almost Copyleft Licenses.

However, If original author wants to specify Invariants Sections(or 
Front-Cover/Back-Cover texts), I think that we should use only GFDL.

Re: New update of the Emacs website (was Re: First draft of the Emacs website)

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

Sorry, but I don't see a good reason to depart from our usual practice
with that dual license.  There is also a reason not to: modified
versions might be made under CC-SA only.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: New update of the Emacs website (was Re: First draft of the Emacs website)

[Random832]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
> Sorry, but I don't see a good reason to depart from our usual practice
> with that dual license.  There is also a reason not to: modified
> versions might be made under CC-SA only.

I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that CC-BY-SA allows relicensing
under CC-SA (this would be surprising to me), or simply that a dual
license would allow relicensing under CC-BY-SA alone (that's the point
of dual licensing, isn't it?) and this is somehow a problem?

Re: New update of the Emacs website (was Re: First draft of the Emacs website)

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that CC-BY-SA allows relicensing
  > under CC-SA (this would be surprising to me),

CC-SA is a shorter name for CC-BY-SA.

  >  or simply that a dual
  > license would allow relicensing under CC-BY-SA alone

That's the problem I want to avoid.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.