From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Can we make set_point_both less expensive? Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:00:23 -0400 Message-ID: References: <5505E34C.4000106@dancol.org> <838uex1u1m.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1426680055 26136 80.91.229.3 (18 Mar 2015 12:00:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:00:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eliz@gnu.org, dancol@dancol.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Yuri Khan Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 18 13:00:46 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YYCeT-000186-1L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 13:00:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33088 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYCeN-0007ox-Dl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:00:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37098) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYCeG-0007nP-90 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:00:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYCeA-0005Vq-7E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:00:32 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:48444) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYCeA-0005Vh-3h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:00:26 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYCe7-0007Ay-GD; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:00:23 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Yuri Khan on Tue, 17 Mar 2015 21:15:46 +0600) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:183988 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > There are in fact plenty of reasons to be able to move point all over > the form. Off the top of my head: > * The user might want to mark and copy some part of the form text. > * The user might want to look up some words of the form text in a dictionary. > * The user might want parts of the form text spoken aloud or displayed > on a Braille terminal. Some people occasionally want to do these things, but most of the time it feels strange that point can move into the fixed text. In all the other form filling programs the cursor always in some field. > * Moving the point only through the form fields feels unpredictable; > the user feels out of control. On the contrary, that is precisely what all users are accustomed to. Seeing point move into the labels is what will feel out of control. > The Customize system looks like a working real life example of a form, > but it does not prevent moving the point outside the fields. Does that > mean the original problem 'intangible' was intended to solve is > already solved in a better way? Users seem not to be very happy with Customize. Perhaps this is one of the reasons of why. Here's an idea. There should be a minor mode which controls whether point can move into the fixed text between the forms, which is enabled by default when you're filling out a form, but you can turn it off if you want to do one of those unusual things. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.