From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2014 23:22:59 -0400 Message-ID: References: <54193A70.9020901@member.fsf.org> <87wq8pwjen.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <837g0ptnlj.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3yxwdr6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tx3tmi3t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <834mvttgsf.fsf@gnu.org> <87lhp5m99w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9ztm5oa.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87d2ahm3nw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <871tqneyvl.fsf@netris.org> <87d2a54t1m.fsf@yeeloong.lan> <83lhotme1e.fsf@gnu.org> <871tql17uw.fsf@yeeloong.lan> <838uktm9gw.fsf@gnu.org> <87h9zgarvp.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83y4srjaot.fsf@gnu.org> <83r3yhiu8c.fsf@gnu.org> <83r3yg9bpu.fsf@gnu.org> <83y4sn83ig.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1413084191 13284 80.91.229.3 (12 Oct 2014 03:23:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 03:23:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dak@gnu.org, mhw@netris.org, dmantipov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org, handa@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, stephen@xemacs.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 12 05:23:06 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xd9kP-00075K-IN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 12 Oct 2014 05:23:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55923 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xd9kP-0001gK-5Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2014 23:23:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38697) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xd9kL-0001g3-0u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2014 23:23:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xd9kK-0006CF-2A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2014 23:23:00 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:58800) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xd9kJ-0006C8-VZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Oct 2014 23:22:59 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xd9kJ-0008J0-1D; Sat, 11 Oct 2014 23:22:59 -0400 In-reply-to: <83y4sn83ig.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sat, 11 Oct 2014 10:33:11 +0300) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:175268 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Originally, Emacs would complain that Latin-1 cannot be used, and > asked the user to select a different encoding. > > That is about Latin-1. What did Emacs do, at that time, with UTF-8? The situation I described is with text encodable by UTF-8, but not by Latin-1. So it has no analogue when UTF-8 is used to begin with. It looks like that past case isn't directly pertinent to this issue, then. What will Emacs do, under this proposal, if the user is asked whether to keep the original raw bytes and answers NO? Abort the operation, I suppose. Our experience with such prompts is that they are perceived as annoyances, no matter whether they happen at read or at write time. Maybe so, but how big of an annoyance depends on how often it happens. Those who are arguing for doing something to avoid propagating raw bytes might want to implement an optional feature for asking for confirmation before saving UTF-8 with raw bytes. Then people could try enabling that feature and we would see how often we get asked to confirm. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.