From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:23:50 -0400 Message-ID: References: <54193A70.9020901@member.fsf.org> <87lhp6h4zb.fsf@panthera.terpri.org> <87k34qo4c1.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <54257C22.2000806@yandex.ru> <83iokato6x.fsf@gnu.org> <87wq8pwjen.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <837g0ptnlj.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3yxwdr6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tx3tmi3t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <834mvttgsf.fsf@gnu.org> <87lhp5m99w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9ztm5oa.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87d2ahm3nw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <871tqneyvl.fsf@netris.org> <87zjd9swfj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87oatnqpml.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <874mvdrj45.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1412951048 10997 80.91.229.3 (10 Oct 2014 14:24:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 14:24:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dak@gnu.org, mhw@netris.org, dmantipov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org, handa@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, eliz@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 10 16:24:02 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xcb6u-0000VT-FD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 16:24:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48586 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xcb6u-0004Lq-2b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:24:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36845) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xcb6m-0004Fo-QH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:23:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xcb6l-0005rx-KJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:23:52 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:48661) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xcb6l-0005rq-Gx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:23:51 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xcb6k-00067A-N6; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:23:50 -0400 In-reply-to: <874mvdrj45.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (stephen@xemacs.org) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:175214 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > you need to show it is real security and really does a useful job. I suspect I can't give you a convincing example, because I haven't studied the Guile modules "at risk", Someone else is welcome to convince me, too. It seems to me that what your argument must be false. You're saying that module A could pass data to module C through properties in a string passed through module B. Yes, it could. But module A could put the same data in a global variable and C could read it there. So where is the "security"? Or how about the recent bash lossage? s-expressions are just Lisp data, and could be placed in a property. These two cases are different in their essential structure. The Bash case involves a browser that sends data thru Apache to trick Bash, with both Apache and Bash being honest. To do this, it has to fiddle with data that Bash will look at for some legitimate purpose. In this case, we have to suppose that A and C are BOTH malicious, and the question is whether B can (as a security measure) prevent them from communicating. I challenge people to demonstrate that Guile provides some real security against such communication, in the absence of text properties in strings. If you can't, then pipe down and leave this to someone else who can. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.