From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Webapp/Plugin Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 09:36:32 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87394cpxm5.fsf@friendface.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <878ve3h90z.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1381153002 3578 80.91.229.3 (7 Oct 2013 13:36:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 13:36:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: gardellawg@gmail.com, kernel-hacker@bennee.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Michael Reilly Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 07 15:36:47 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VTAzL-0003Vx-He for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 15:36:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59350 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VTAzK-0007yT-Oq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 09:36:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42423) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VTAzD-0007xO-Pg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 09:36:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VTAzC-0001zu-Gb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 09:36:35 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:36847) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VTAzC-0001zm-DH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 09:36:34 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VTAzA-0001gZ-W6; Mon, 07 Oct 2013 09:36:33 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Paul Michael Reilly on Sun, 6 Oct 2013 14:59:49 -0400) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:163945 Archived-At: I know you are not a fan of Cloud based systems in general I don't have a general attitude toward all those different things. I adamantly reject the term "Cloud-based systems", because it spreads confusion and lumps together unrelated issues. To say anything formulated in terms of "Cloud" promotes misunderstanding. I invite you to join me in avoiding the term. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html. In this specific case, two different issues arise: * If someone else's server does your computing, that is SaaSS. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html. * Storing your data in someone else's server is showing them to the NSA. All data connected with a person is sensitive, including your location when you connect to that server. but, when used wisely, theses systems can save the User a ton of system administration and provide even more function. Are you suggesting that saving some trouble is a good reason to surrender control over your data and your computing? That's precisely the idea that we need to lead people to abhor. At the basic ethical level, supporting use of Emacs in such a context is comparable to supporting use of Emacs on Losedows or SmackOS -- which we are willing to do. However, there is an important difference one level down. I don't think many people are likely to use Windows or SmackOS because Emacs runs on them. In our community, people are likely to understand that those systems do wrong to the user. But I fear that many might decide to use thin client machines because of the convenience you cite. We have talked about the harm they do for only 3 years or so. A trade-off solution occurs to me: include this support, but lecture the user, "You're making a terrible mistake using a system like this one" (plus why), in each Emacs session. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.