From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:38:27 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> <87sk3oe3la.fsf@telefonica.net> <1154D96E7D2F401D849266F359E44BB9@us.oracle.com> <87ocecdzou.fsf@telefonica.net> <2256C17F740A425884AD551DE7758056@us.oracle.com> <87fwzodqqm.fsf@telefonica.net> <5138CDF30B2D4B778F948015614DA7BC@us.oracle.com> <87iq4ijtdy.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87mxtr8i6l.fsf@telefonica.net> <87aapj1jh4.fsf@telefonica.net> Reply-To: ams@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279823920 31597 80.91.229.12 (22 Jul 2010 18:38:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:38:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 22 20:38:39 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc0fG-00065s-Cg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:38:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60858 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oc0fF-00069c-Ka for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:38:37 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=53274 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oc0f7-00068l-8l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:38:29 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc0f6-0000Iu-7c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:38:29 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:56763) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc0f6-0000Iq-1e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:38:28 -0400 Original-Received: from ams by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oc0f5-0005fv-8Q; Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:38:27 -0400 In-reply-to: <87aapj1jh4.fsf@telefonica.net> (message from =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= on Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:04:23 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127651 Archived-At: "Alfred M. Szmidt" writes: > > Can we please stop with the extravagant claim that new users are > > not attracted to emacs because of some idiosyncratic bindings? > > That claim is extravagant indeed. The users are not attracted by > the idiosyncratic keybindings, they are *repelled* by them. > > Again, simply not true, please stop. _Your_ experience might dictate > things that are different frommine, but claiming that users are > "repelled' is simply not true since new users use emacs. So as far as some new users come from time to time, there is no need to question Emacs' design. Curious logic. We'll better leave the discussion here. If the argument is that users are "repelled" from emacs because of the current bindings, and it is shown that this is simply not true, then yes, one should kill the discussion on that specific point. People are making absurd claims, and refuse to listen and it is getting tiresome.