From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 21:31:26 -0400 Message-ID: References: E65F619BF1ED4EF594C6E363871DCB53@us.oracle.com <4C3DF076.1000208@gmx.de> <8C32E8077A2247548528D6657198F388@us.oracle.com> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279243899 1029 80.91.229.12 (16 Jul 2010 01:31:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 01:31:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: grishka@gmx.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 16 03:31:37 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZZm4-00034O-2l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 03:31:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38674 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZZm3-0004uv-Ew for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 21:31:35 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=44455 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZZlw-0004tX-2X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 21:31:28 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OZZlv-0005tr-1V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 21:31:27 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:36665) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OZZlu-0005tn-Ru for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 21:31:26 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZZlu-0005go-73; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 21:31:26 -0400 In-reply-to: <8C32E8077A2247548528D6657198F388@us.oracle.com> (drew.adams@oracle.com) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127402 Archived-At: * A scroll bar typically is associated with the view, not the paper: when you drag it down, the view moves down (and the paper up). * A hand pointer typically is associated with the paper, not the view; when you drag it down, the paper moves down (and the view up). When these command names were chosen, Emacs had neither of those, and both analyses made sense. I chose to identify them with the paper. Since Emacs has scroll bars, and no hand pointers, it would be more consistent today if the scroll commands were named identifying with the view. The change could be made compatibly by choosing new names such as scroll-view-down and scroll-view-up. Still, I am not sure it is worth the transient. Ordinary use of Emacs doesn't involve knowing the names of these commands, so I don't think they could be a real obstacle to learning to use it.