From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r99650: Put scroll-bar on right by default on UNIX. Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:30:31 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83pr371rl2.fsf@gnu.org> <873a03pmgn.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <20100314093329.GA1362@muc.de> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268595142 32607 80.91.229.12 (14 Mar 2010 19:32:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:32:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, cyd@stupidchicken.com, cloos@jhcloos.com, miles@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 14 20:32:11 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqtXl-0005nQ-Ik for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:32:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41072 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NqtXl-0001gM-1d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:32:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NqtWD-0000sY-Vv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:30:34 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46885 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NqtWD-0000sC-Cu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:30:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NqtWC-0004O2-1M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:30:33 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:57483) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NqtWB-0004Ny-Rv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:30:31 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqtWB-0005LT-Ds; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:30:31 -0400 In-reply-to: <20100314093329.GA1362@muc.de> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Sun, 14 Mar 2010 09:33:29 +0000) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:121966 Archived-At: I think it's based on the assumption that a scroll bar is an essential part of editing that nobody can bear to be without; that it'll be getting used so often that nobody could possibly object to it. I think these assumptions warrant examination, particularly under Emacs. It's based on the assumption that the user will use the scroll bar to scroll. That's not true for all users -- for instance, I would never use the scroll bar to scroll in Emacs, because the keyboard is so much more convenient. The scroll bar can also be used to see where in the buffer you are. It is not necessary to use the scroll bar for this, since the mode line gives the same info. But some people may have the habit of getting it from the scroll bar. Maybe people who use the scroll bar that way would prefer it on the right. If you don't use the scroll bar, you may as well turn it off. I expect that beginners are more likely to use the scroll bar, while experienced users would not. But the experienced users can turn off the scroll bar, or move it, so we need not cater to them. The beginners are the most important users to think about when making this decision.