From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: please make line-move-visual nil Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 07:45:42 -0400 Message-ID: References: <48914.130.55.118.19.1242592120.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <66C6BA04EBCF4B6DAED69E851627D852@us.oracle.com> <87eiue83i7.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87my92dmdt.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <87eiudewtq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <831vqdubqy.fsf@gnu.org> <6161f3180905270548t3012bc1ah161719ae01db0fb5@mail.gmail.com> Reply-To: ams@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1243770361 6864 80.91.229.12 (31 May 2009 11:46:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 11:46:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eliz@gnu.org, stephen@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Andrew W. Nosenko" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 31 13:45:58 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MAjUD-0004IM-0i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 31 May 2009 13:45:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35179 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MAjUC-0007bp-Bp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 31 May 2009 07:45:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MAjU6-0007Xz-9U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 May 2009 07:45:50 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MAjU1-0007Uj-Iu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 May 2009 07:45:49 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42985 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MAjU1-0007Ug-1R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 May 2009 07:45:45 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:44121) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MAjU0-0002wV-NN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 May 2009 07:45:44 -0400 Original-Received: from ams by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MAjTy-0005aE-Iy; Sun, 31 May 2009 07:45:43 -0400 In-reply-to: <6161f3180905270548t3012bc1ah161719ae01db0fb5@mail.gmail.com> (andrew.w.nosenko@gmail.com) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:111213 Archived-At: You can argue that it would not be "magic" or unpredictable, but indeed based on a mode or mode-deriviation. But could you predict (just as "stupid" user, not as mode's author), what deriviation tree has Occur mode, for example? Or Shell Output? (Ok, I know that Shell Command Output buffer has Fundamental mode, and what?) Maybe you are right, all I would like to see is a compromise that the majority of people will agree to. The fact that Yidong, and Monnier simply disregard any discussion on the topic is frustrating, specially since people have voiced strong arguments for why the new behaviour is broken. Hand waving arguments are insulting to everyone on this list. This must be resolved before the release. But I understand your point. Moreover, some time ago I also was very frustrated, because convinient way for "phisical" line navigation is no less. And solution is very simple: just give best from both worlds: above in this thread alredy mentioned that AquaEmacs has different bindings for C-n/C-p vs. down/up. I also just bound "phisical" line movements to the M-down and M-up in addition to the "visual" on down and up, and have now conventient and similar bindings to the both movement modes. Maybe that is an idea, bind the line-move-visual behaviour to M-n/M-p or just the arrow keys (maybe someone suggested this already). What do people think?