From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Kenichi Handa Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: japanese vs. chinese fonts Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:54:20 +0900 Message-ID: References: <20081002.113032.155350320.wl@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1222948487 7202 80.91.229.12 (2 Oct 2008 11:54:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 11:54:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, miles.bader@necel.com, miles@gnu.org To: Werner LEMBERG Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 02 13:55:44 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KlMmV-0003RV-Iu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 13:55:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56133 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KlMlS-0000VM-EF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 07:54:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KlMlN-0000TP-QE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 07:54:33 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KlMlL-0000RU-6N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 07:54:33 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=54699 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KlMlL-0000RR-0i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 07:54:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mx1.aist.go.jp ([150.29.246.133]:54929) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KlMlF-0005bm-Ud; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 07:54:26 -0400 Original-Received: from rqsmtp1.aist.go.jp (rqsmtp1.aist.go.jp [150.29.254.115]) by mx1.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id m92BsLJf006806; Thu, 2 Oct 2008 20:54:21 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) Original-Received: from smtp3.aist.go.jp by rqsmtp1.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id m92BsLFx019802; Thu, 2 Oct 2008 20:54:21 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) Original-Received: by smtp3.aist.go.jp with ESMTP id m92BsKD5029107; Thu, 2 Oct 2008 20:54:20 +0900 (JST) env-from (handa@m17n.org) Original-Received: from handa by etlken.m17n.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KlMlA-0001qP-7w; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:54:20 +0900 In-reply-to: <20081002.113032.155350320.wl@gnu.org> (message from Werner LEMBERG on Thu, 02 Oct 2008 11:30:32 +0200 (CEST)) User-Agent: SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.2 (Yagi-Nishiguchi) APEL/10.2 Emacs/23.0.60 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) MULE/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:104297 Archived-At: In article <20081002.113032.155350320.wl@gnu.org>, Werner LEMBERG writes: > > The debian description also says: > > > > This font provides full coverage of GBK (CP936) charset, CJK > > Unified Ideographs, as well as the code-points needed for zh_CN, > > zh_SG, zh_TW, zh_HK, zh_MO, ja (Japanese) and ko (Korean) > > locales for fontconfig. > Hmm. Does this font also provides proper `localized' glyphs, this is, > you select an OpenType language tag so that you get proper glyph > shapes? They can vary considerably (and this is what Miles > disturbes). Without this, the font shouldn't announce itself as > covering more than a single CJK *language*. I've just downloaded that font and checked the contents. No, it doesn't have a LangSys for Japanese in GSUB table. So, there's not that much Emacs can do. If you want to avoid using that font totally (i.e. don't use it even for Chinese), you can use face-ignored-fonts. > Ken Lunde, the leading CJK expert of Adobe, wrote a few years ago an > article regarding CJK glyph shapes (for a Unicode conference). He > estimates that about a third of all CJK glyphs (this means > approx. 20000 characters!) need localized forms. > An additional complication is ideographic variation (this is something > on the character level, thus relevant to editors like Emacs), cf. > http://unicode.org/reports/tr37/ Yes. That's one of ugly Unicode features I hate. I have not yet got a good idea how to handle it. I hope no one use such a dirty feature. --- Kenichi Handa handa@ni.aist.go.jp