From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:51:30 -0400 Message-ID: References: <004a01c8a1a0$7215cdd0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <878wz9btq8.fsf@jurta.org> <85fxthy4qp.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87hcdxz9zr.fsf_-_@jurta.org> <87ve2cfk9x.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200804201931.m3KJVO4X008875@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <858wz8ux2w.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480BA779.2080507@gmail.com> <853apguv0s.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480BAD5C.4090204@gmail.com> <85prskte96.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480BB8C0.4020303@gmail.com> <85abjnu5ss.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480C31B9.6060900@gmail.com> <480CC3AD.1050403@gmail.com> <85mynnxhuh.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480CD2D1.1020003@gmail.com> <878wz7xdgb.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: ams@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1208807586 24851 80.91.229.12 (21 Apr 2008 19:53:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:53:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, cyd@stupidchicken.com, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, dann@ics.uci.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, drew.adams@oracle.com To: Paul R Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 21 21:53:30 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Jo249-0005Bw-Eo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:52:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jo23H-0001pj-IH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:51:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jo23D-0001pa-Ia for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:51:43 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jo239-0001pF-No for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:51:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jo239-0001pC-Km for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:51:39 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jo237-0004Ay-EG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:51:39 -0400 Original-Received: from ams by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Jo230-0001H1-3Z; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:51:30 -0400 In-reply-to: <878wz7xdgb.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Paul R on Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:36:20 +0200) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:95688 Archived-At: "Alfred M. Szmidt" writes: > How about talking about users in general, not only new users use > emacs, emacs should have good defaults for both new and old users. If they had the same expectations, yes. But they are often incompatibles. In such a case, new users expectations should take precedence, simply because : - new users might give up because they don't realize that what they don't like is only a default setting, not inherent to the emacs program itself - old user know how to change a simple setting in 30 seconds That is very short sighted way of looking at things, new users will become old users with time. A default setting is default because it common by those who use something alot; if one cannot use emacs out of the box without having to modify things, then something is terribly wrong.