From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
To: Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: position on changing defaults?
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:35:26 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1JXTMk-0000sj-2N@fencepost.gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <buobq5sebmk.fsf@dhapc248.dev.necel.com> (message from Miles Bader on Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:10:11 +0900)
ibuffer's UI was never subjected to the scrutiny appropriate for
changes in standard Emacs interfaces. Someone said he wanted to
install it as a powerful optional alternative, and since (from the
description) it did seem powerful, I said ok without paying much
attention. I never tried using it, and I didn't try to learn
just what it did.
As an optional alternative, it did not need any more scrutiny than
that. Some people use it and like it, and it can't bother anyone
else.
Whenever people wanted to enhance ibuffer, I didn't really look at
what was being proposed. If the people who used ibuffer were happy
with the enhancements, that was good enough. I wasn't one of them,
and I was busy.
A proposal to change the way the buffer list works by default is
another matter. Each detail of that should receive careful thought.
Just because ibuffer does X and Y and Z, that doesn't mean that if we
make X the default then we should make Y and Z the default too. We
might want X with Y' instead of Y, and not Z at all.
*Buffer List* is described in the Emacs Manual. We have no Texinfo
documentation for ibuffer. Part of making any ibuffer features the
default would be writing them up for the manual. Writing a clear
description may not be easy, and not everyone here has the skill to
write good documentation in English. Having good text to put in the
manual should be a prerequisite for making it the default (if we want
to).
Trying to write a clear description of these features could a crucial
test of whether they would be a good default. If the proposed new
documentation is harder to understand than the current documentation
of the current featrues, that suggests the change should not be mde.
Perhaps it would be good to adopt the general policy that proposals
for changes in parts of the Emacs UI that are documented in the Emacs
Manual should come with the corresponding change in the manual.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2008-03-07 3:35 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 256+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-03-05 6:37 position on changing defaults? Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-05 7:02 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-05 13:33 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-05 14:54 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-03-05 15:44 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-05 19:25 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-05 19:38 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-05 21:55 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-05 15:34 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-05 9:55 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-07 3:37 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-05 15:02 ` Bastien
2008-03-05 19:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-05 22:30 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-05 23:15 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-06 3:49 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-06 4:10 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-06 4:30 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-07 3:35 ` Richard Stallman [this message]
2008-03-07 3:38 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-05 23:28 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-06 3:58 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-06 10:07 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-06 11:37 ` René Kyllingstad
2008-03-06 16:20 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-06 19:11 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-06 21:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-09 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-06 16:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-06 17:52 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-06 18:25 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-07 0:35 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-07 3:38 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-09 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-09 1:46 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-09 16:40 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-06 16:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-06 16:37 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-06 17:09 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-06 17:35 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-06 20:38 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-06 20:40 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-06 21:33 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-06 21:36 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-09 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-06 18:10 ` Johan Bockgård
2008-03-06 19:44 ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-07 0:43 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-09 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-07 3:38 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-07 3:48 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-07 4:07 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-08 17:40 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-08 18:08 ` Gregory Collins
2008-03-09 0:27 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-09 0:36 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-09 0:43 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-09 1:10 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-09 23:08 ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-11 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-11 6:06 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-09 21:51 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-09 22:34 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-10 0:29 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-10 0:57 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-11 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-11 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-09 20:53 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-08 18:15 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-08 21:09 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-09 16:39 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-09 17:55 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-09 22:24 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-10 0:30 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-10 22:29 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-08 19:11 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-08 19:26 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-08 19:54 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-08 20:03 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-08 20:28 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-08 23:41 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-09 0:04 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-03-09 0:18 ` Stephen Eglen
2008-03-11 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-11 10:44 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-11 12:22 ` Tassilo Horn
2008-03-11 14:39 ` ido-mode (was Re: position on changing defaults?) Kim F. Storm
2008-03-11 16:14 ` ido-mode Tassilo Horn
2008-03-09 0:27 ` position on changing defaults? Dan Nicolaescu
2008-03-09 0:36 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-09 9:51 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-09 16:40 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-11 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-09 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-07 12:21 ` paul r
2008-03-11 1:00 ` Xavier Maillard
2008-03-07 3:38 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-05 20:43 ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-05 23:30 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-05 23:45 ` Bastien
2008-03-05 23:54 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-06 0:00 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-06 0:10 ` Bastien
2008-03-07 3:38 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-05 23:46 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-06 0:21 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-06 10:58 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-07 23:14 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-07 23:27 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-08 0:40 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-09 2:18 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-08 1:24 ` deactivation in "shift-select" mode Miles Bader
2008-03-08 2:22 ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-08 3:11 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-08 3:27 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-08 17:26 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-09 20:53 ` position on changing defaults? Richard Stallman
2008-03-09 21:58 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-09 22:34 ` Shift-movement selection (was: position on changing defaults?) Stefan Monnier
2008-03-09 23:00 ` Shift-movement selection Miles Bader
2008-03-09 23:57 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-10 0:06 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-10 16:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-10 16:25 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-10 3:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-10 4:11 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-10 14:38 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-10 15:06 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-10 16:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-10 16:40 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-11 9:25 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-11 18:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-12 0:19 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-12 10:06 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-12 17:51 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-12 22:06 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-12 23:59 ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-13 0:07 ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-13 8:28 ` tomas
2008-03-11 22:42 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-11 22:38 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-11 23:31 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-11 23:46 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-12 1:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-12 15:11 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-12 15:11 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-12 15:54 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-12 17:39 ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-12 20:03 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-12 22:00 ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-13 1:06 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-13 2:00 ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-10 22:32 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-11 18:38 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-11 9:24 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-10 17:16 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-10 18:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-11 20:25 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-11 20:41 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-12 15:11 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-11 22:33 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-06 16:46 ` position on changing defaults? Stefan Monnier
2008-03-07 2:08 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-08 6:28 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-08 17:40 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-08 19:08 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-08 18:07 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-08 20:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-09 16:40 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-09 22:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-09 22:56 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-09 23:17 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-11 9:25 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-11 10:24 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-11 16:02 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-09 20:53 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-07 3:38 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-05 23:52 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-06 0:34 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-06 1:00 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-06 1:18 ` Bastien
2008-03-06 17:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-08 17:40 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-08 19:12 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-09 16:40 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-09 22:35 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-09 23:11 ` CUA mode's C-RET binding [was: position on changing defaults?] Drew Adams
2008-03-09 23:36 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-09 23:46 ` CUA mode's C-RET binding Miles Bader
2008-03-09 23:50 ` CUA mode's C-RET binding [was: position on changing defaults?] Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-10 0:00 ` CUA mode's C-RET binding Miles Bader
2008-03-10 0:18 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-10 0:02 ` CUA mode's C-RET binding [was: position on changing defaults?] Drew Adams
2008-03-10 10:13 ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-10 13:47 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-10 14:32 ` Johan Bockgård
2008-03-10 14:53 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-11 0:07 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-11 20:25 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-11 20:50 ` CUA mode's C-RET binding Manoj Srivastava
2008-03-12 0:37 ` Juri Linkov
2008-03-12 15:12 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-12 17:30 ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-03-12 20:21 ` Dangerous shell commands? (was: CUA mode's C-RET binding) Reiner Steib
2008-03-12 21:23 ` Dangerous shell commands? David Kastrup
2008-03-13 0:14 ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-03-11 14:44 ` CUA mode's C-RET binding [was: position on changing defaults?] Mathias Dahl
2008-03-11 15:09 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-13 11:20 ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-13 17:26 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-11 9:25 ` position on changing defaults? Richard Stallman
2008-03-08 19:25 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-08 20:38 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-08 23:38 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-08 23:51 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-09 2:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-09 16:39 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-10 16:11 ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-11 10:28 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-08 20:56 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-09 8:38 ` Making the command loop mode-dependent [was: position on changing defaults?] Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-07 3:38 ` position on changing defaults? Richard Stallman
2008-03-07 10:50 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-09 2:18 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-09 2:40 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-09 22:06 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-09 22:13 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-09 22:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-09 23:44 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-09 23:57 ` Miles Bader
2008-03-10 1:00 ` Johan Bockgård
2008-03-10 17:16 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-11 10:35 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-11 18:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-12 0:19 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-12 9:56 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-12 14:03 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-12 23:56 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-13 1:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-13 2:01 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-13 2:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-13 16:57 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-14 2:55 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-14 9:51 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-13 7:45 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-13 12:45 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-13 13:28 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-13 20:39 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-13 21:55 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-13 23:56 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-13 22:24 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-13 22:47 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-03-13 22:49 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-14 16:44 ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-13 23:30 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-13 15:41 ` Chong Yidong
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