Change grep -> lgrep, rgrep in Tools menu?

Change grep -> lgrep, rgrep in Tools menu?

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Wouldn't it be better to have the simple commands `lgrep' and `rgrep' in 
the Tools menu rather than the more advanced command `grep'?

Re: Change grep -> lgrep, rgrep in Tools menu?

[Richard Stallman]

    Wouldn't it be better to have the simple commands `lgrep' and `rgrep' in 
    the Tools menu rather than the more advanced command `grep'?

I am not convinced it is better.

Re: Change grep -> lgrep, rgrep in Tools menu?

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Richard Stallman wrote:
>     Wouldn't it be better to have the simple commands `lgrep' and `rgrep' in 
>     the Tools menu rather than the more advanced command `grep'?
> 
> I am not convinced it is better.

But is not the menus supposed to be more for those that are not advanced 
users? I would guess that not all beginners are familiar with grep. 
Using lgrep or rgrep would probably be easy for them though.

Re: Change grep -> lgrep, rgrep in Tools menu?

[William Xu]

"Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:

> But is not the menus supposed to be more for those that are not advanced
> users? I would guess that not all beginners are familiar with
> grep. Using lgrep or rgrep would probably be easy for them though.

I know grep well, but never used the other two. I actually don't know
what they do.

Also, consider the availability, on my macosx, 

,----
| zen:~$ lgrep
| bash: lgrep: command not found
| zen:~$ rgrep
| bash: rgrep: command not found
`----

,----
| zen:~$ grep
| Usage: grep [OPTION]... PATTERN [FILE]...
| Try `grep --help' for more information.
`----

-- 
William

http://williamxu.net9.org

Re: Change grep -> lgrep, rgrep in Tools menu?

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

William Xu wrote:
> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> But is not the menus supposed to be more for those that are not advanced
>> users? I would guess that not all beginners are familiar with
>> grep. Using lgrep or rgrep would probably be easy for them though.
> 
> I know grep well, but never used the other two. I actually don't know
> what they do.
> 
> Also, consider the availability, on my macosx, 
> 
> ,----
> | zen:~$ lgrep
> | bash: lgrep: command not found
> | zen:~$ rgrep
> | bash: rgrep: command not found
> `----

Try

   M-x lgrep
   M-x rgrep

Re: Change grep -> lgrep, rgrep in Tools menu?

[William Xu]

"Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:

> Try
>
>   M-x lgrep
>   M-x rgrep

Ah, i did not know they are lisp functions.

-- 
William

http://williamxu.net9.org

Re: Change grep -> lgrep, rgrep in Tools menu?

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Richard Stallman wrote:
>     Wouldn't it be better to have the simple commands `lgrep' and `rgrep' in 
>     the Tools menu rather than the more advanced command `grep'?
> 
> I am not convinced it is better.

Rethinking: Didn't we discuss this once before? And is not the real 
issue that lgrep/rgrep should be in the edit menu under Search? (And 
perhaps: why is grep in the tools menu and not in edit - Search?)

Search menu [was: Change grep -> lgrep, rgrep in Tools menu?]

[Drew Adams]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 943 bytes --]

> why is grep in the tools menu and not in edit - Search?

I agree that Grep should be on the Search menu. I moved it there in my own
code long ago.

FWIW - 

I also did the following to the Search menu:

* Moved it to the top level, instead of as an Edit submenu. 
* Moved the Replace, Bookmarks, and Go To submenus to it.
* Added an Occurrences item (`occur').
* Added a Tags submenu (`find-tag', `find-tag-regexp',
  `apropos-tags', `tags-search').

Screenshot of the menu attached. All except the Icicles submenu is vanilla
Emacs stuff, just renamed and rearranged.

There are lots of powerful search tools in Emacs, and it is good to make
them more evident.

BTW - Although I removed a lot from the Edit menu, I added other things to
it - things that are more about editing: submenus Fill (filling), Edit
Region, and Sort Region, for instance. And items Delete Matching Lines and
Delete Non-Matching Lines (`flush-lines', `keep-lines').


[-- Attachment #2: search-menu.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 6199 bytes --]

Re: Search menu [was: Change grep -> lgrep, rgrep in Tools menu?]

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Drew Adams wrote:
>> why is grep in the tools menu and not in edit - Search?
> 
> I agree that Grep should be on the Search menu. I moved it there in my own
> code long ago.
> 
> FWIW - 
> 
> I also did the following to the Search menu:
> 
> * Moved it to the top level, instead of as an Edit submenu. 
> * Moved the Replace, Bookmarks, and Go To submenus to it.
> * Added an Occurrences item (`occur').
> * Added a Tags submenu (`find-tag', `find-tag-regexp',
>   `apropos-tags', `tags-search').
> 
> Screenshot of the menu attached. All except the Icicles submenu is vanilla
> Emacs stuff, just renamed and rearranged.
> 
> There are lots of powerful search tools in Emacs, and it is good to make
> them more evident.
> 
> BTW - Although I removed a lot from the Edit menu, I added other things to
> it - things that are more about editing: submenus Fill (filling), Edit
> Region, and Sort Region, for instance. And items Delete Matching Lines and
> Delete Non-Matching Lines (`flush-lines', `keep-lines').

I still think it would be good to replace

   Tools
     grep

with

   Edit
     Search
       lgrep
       rgrep

For Drews suggestion and earlier discussion see here:

http://www.nabble.com/Change-grep--%3E-lgrep,-rgrep-in-Tools-menu--td15184987.html

Also, occur is missing from the search sub-menu.

I believe those things are essential for beginners. The menus are 
perhaps most useful for the beginners. My earlier question did not evoke 
much response, maybe because this question is not so important for most 
readers here.

I suggest we change the Edit menu. Maybe Drew's suggestion is good too, 
but I feel that it can be troublesome with too many menus.

If someone feels very strongly against changing the menus, then please 
say so. Otherwise I think it is just a matter of doing it (in a sane way).