* Release schedule
@ 2007-04-20 21:53 Richard Stallman
2007-04-21 3:38 ` Chong Yidong
2007-04-21 10:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2007-04-20 21:53 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
I have some changes to install in the manual and I probably can't
do it today. Also, there are a few things that may need fixing.
Please don't start making a release until you hear from me.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-20 21:53 Release schedule Richard Stallman
@ 2007-04-21 3:38 ` Chong Yidong
2007-04-21 10:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Chong Yidong @ 2007-04-21 3:38 UTC (permalink / raw
To: rms; +Cc: emacs-devel
Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> Also, there are a few things that may need fixing.
Please be specific.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-20 21:53 Release schedule Richard Stallman
2007-04-21 3:38 ` Chong Yidong
@ 2007-04-21 10:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-04-21 19:25 ` Chong Yidong
1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2007-04-21 10:11 UTC (permalink / raw
To: rms; +Cc: emacs-devel
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 17:53:49 -0400
>
> I have some changes to install in the manual and I probably can't
> do it today. Also, there are a few things that may need fixing.
> Please don't start making a release until you hear from me.
In that case, I think we should make another pretest. We cannot just
release the code with untested patches that got installed since the
22.0.98 pretest.
Does anyone disagree?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-21 10:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2007-04-21 19:25 ` Chong Yidong
2007-04-21 20:02 ` Glenn Morris
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Chong Yidong @ 2007-04-21 19:25 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: rms, emacs-devel
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
>> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 17:53:49 -0400
>>
>> I have some changes to install in the manual and I probably can't
>> do it today. Also, there are a few things that may need fixing.
>> Please don't start making a release until you hear from me.
>
> In that case, I think we should make another pretest. We cannot just
> release the code with untested patches that got installed since the
> 22.0.98 pretest.
>
> Does anyone disagree?
We know exactly what patches went into the tree, and that they are not
risky. So I think the situation is OK.
On Monday, I will cut the branch and roll a candidate Emacs 22.1
tarball. If no immediate problems are found with that tarball, I
think we can make that the official release.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-21 19:25 ` Chong Yidong
@ 2007-04-21 20:02 ` Glenn Morris
2007-04-21 20:14 ` Chong Yidong
2007-04-21 22:31 ` Nick Roberts
2007-04-22 3:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-04-22 16:35 ` Richard Stallman
2 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2007-04-21 20:02 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Chong Yidong; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, rms, emacs-devel
Chong Yidong wrote:
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
[...]
>> In that case, I think we should make another pretest. We cannot just
>> release the code with untested patches that got installed since the
>> 22.0.98 pretest.
>>
>> Does anyone disagree?
Cleverly worded... :)
> On Monday, I will cut the branch and roll a candidate Emacs 22.1
> tarball. If no immediate problems are found with that tarball, I
> think we can make that the official release.
This doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I suggest branching on
Monday, making an immediate final pretest from the branch, waiting a
few days (and not making _any_ changes unless Emacs is shown to
explode), then making a release.
I was hoping for a St George's day release, alas... :(
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-21 20:02 ` Glenn Morris
@ 2007-04-21 20:14 ` Chong Yidong
2007-04-21 20:17 ` Glenn Morris
2007-04-21 22:31 ` Nick Roberts
1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Chong Yidong @ 2007-04-21 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, rms, emacs-devel
Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:
>> On Monday, I will cut the branch and roll a candidate Emacs 22.1
>> tarball. If no immediate problems are found with that tarball, I
>> think we can make that the official release.
>
> This doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I suggest branching on
> Monday, making an immediate final pretest from the branch, waiting a
> few days (and not making _any_ changes unless Emacs is shown to
> explode), then making a release.
In that case, why don't we simply branch and make a final pretest now?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-21 20:02 ` Glenn Morris
2007-04-21 20:14 ` Chong Yidong
@ 2007-04-21 22:31 ` Nick Roberts
2007-04-21 23:02 ` Glenn Morris
1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Nick Roberts @ 2007-04-21 22:31 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: emacs-devel
> > On Monday, I will cut the branch and roll a candidate Emacs 22.1
> > tarball. If no immediate problems are found with that tarball, I
> > think we can make that the official release.
>
> This doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I suggest branching on
> Monday, making an immediate final pretest from the branch, waiting a
> few days (and not making _any_ changes unless Emacs is shown to
> explode), then making a release.
Sounds the same to me.
> I was hoping for a St George's day release, alas... :(
Maybe an ANZAC day release then? :) (25th April).
--
Nick http://www.inet.net.nz/~nickrob
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-21 19:25 ` Chong Yidong
2007-04-21 20:02 ` Glenn Morris
@ 2007-04-22 3:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-04-22 8:11 ` Juanma Barranquero
` (2 more replies)
2007-04-22 16:35 ` Richard Stallman
2 siblings, 3 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2007-04-22 3:08 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Chong Yidong; +Cc: rms, emacs-devel
> Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:25:20 -0400
>
> We know exactly what patches went into the tree, and that they are not
> risky. So I think the situation is OK.
In software, you can never know such things for certain, and the more
changes you make, the less certain you are in the outcome.
So I think we need another pretest, but if I'm the only one, so be it.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-22 3:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2007-04-22 8:11 ` Juanma Barranquero
2007-04-22 10:33 ` Kim F. Storm
2007-04-22 14:20 ` Chong Yidong
2007-04-22 22:56 ` Kenichi Handa
2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Juanma Barranquero @ 2007-04-22 8:11 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Chong Yidong, rms, emacs-devel
On 4/22/07, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> So I think we need another pretest, but if I'm the only one, so be it.
You're not the only one. It wouldn't be the first time that apparently
trivial changes bite us. Releasing without testing seems a bit
reckless, and it's not like a few days more will even be noticeable
against our quinquennial-release backdrop.
So I'm all for another pretest.
Juanma
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-22 8:11 ` Juanma Barranquero
@ 2007-04-22 10:33 ` Kim F. Storm
2007-04-22 11:13 ` David Kastrup
2007-04-22 11:51 ` Romain Francoise
0 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Kim F. Storm @ 2007-04-22 10:33 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Juanma Barranquero; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, emacs-devel, Chong Yidong, rms
"Juanma Barranquero" <lekktu@gmail.com> writes:
> So I'm all for another pretest.
Me too.
With the +++ / --- lines removed from NEWS, please!!
--
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-22 10:33 ` Kim F. Storm
@ 2007-04-22 11:13 ` David Kastrup
2007-04-23 3:48 ` Richard Stallman
2007-04-22 11:51 ` Romain Francoise
1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: David Kastrup @ 2007-04-22 11:13 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Kim F. Storm
Cc: Juanma Barranquero, Eli Zaretskii, Chong Yidong, rms, emacs-devel
storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes:
> "Juanma Barranquero" <lekktu@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> So I'm all for another pretest.
>
> Me too.
If only we'd manage to get a pretest cycle finished without somebody
noticing things that "really need to" get reorganized before the
release.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-22 11:13 ` David Kastrup
@ 2007-04-23 3:48 ` Richard Stallman
2007-04-23 5:13 ` Stefan Monnier
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2007-04-23 3:48 UTC (permalink / raw
To: David Kastrup; +Cc: lekktu, eliz, emacs-devel, cyd, storm
If only we'd manage to get a pretest cycle finished without somebody
noticing things that "really need to" get reorganized before the
release.
It is a good thing someone noticed!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-23 3:48 ` Richard Stallman
@ 2007-04-23 5:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2007-04-23 6:12 ` David Kastrup
0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2007-04-23 5:13 UTC (permalink / raw
To: rms; +Cc: lekktu, cyd, emacs-devel, storm, eliz
> If only we'd manage to get a pretest cycle finished without somebody
> noticing things that "really need to" get reorganized before the
> release.
> It is a good thing someone noticed!
It's not. I can easily come up with "something that needs reorganizing" or
even with plain bugs. I don't know how long I could keep it up, but I'm
pretty sure I could delay the release by a few years this way.
Emacs is and has always be "approximate", allowing itself incorrect
behaviors in various "corner" cases, based on the expectation that the user
will notice it. The result is "a big happy mess" that's also
tremendously useful. Fixing it would amount to breaking it.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-23 5:13 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2007-04-23 6:12 ` David Kastrup
0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: David Kastrup @ 2007-04-23 6:12 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: rms, lekktu, cyd, emacs-devel, storm, eliz
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>> If only we'd manage to get a pretest cycle finished without somebody
>> noticing things that "really need to" get reorganized before the
>> release.
>
>> It is a good thing someone noticed!
>
> It's not. I can easily come up with "something that needs
> reorganizing" or even with plain bugs. I don't know how long I
> could keep it up, but I'm pretty sure I could delay the release by a
> few years this way.
>
> Emacs is and has always be "approximate", allowing itself incorrect
> behaviors in various "corner" cases, based on the expectation that
> the user will notice it. The result is "a big happy mess" that's
> also tremendously useful. Fixing it would amount to breaking it.
"Fixing" and "reorganizing" stuff eternally is not tantamount to
breaking Emacs. It is tantamount to keeping Emacs to ourselves and
not let the users have it.
--
David Kastrup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-22 10:33 ` Kim F. Storm
2007-04-22 11:13 ` David Kastrup
@ 2007-04-22 11:51 ` Romain Francoise
1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Romain Francoise @ 2007-04-22 11:51 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes:
> With the +++ / --- lines removed from NEWS, please!!
Don't panic, they've already been deleted! :-)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-22 3:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-04-22 8:11 ` Juanma Barranquero
@ 2007-04-22 14:20 ` Chong Yidong
2007-04-22 22:56 ` Kenichi Handa
2 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Chong Yidong @ 2007-04-22 14:20 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: rms, emacs-devel
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> From: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
>> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:25:20 -0400
>>
>> We know exactly what patches went into the tree, and that they are not
>> risky. So I think the situation is OK.
>
> In software, you can never know such things for certain, and the more
> changes you make, the less certain you are in the outcome.
OK. I'll cut the Emacs 22 branch on Monday and make a 22.0.99 pretest
from the branch.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-22 3:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-04-22 8:11 ` Juanma Barranquero
2007-04-22 14:20 ` Chong Yidong
@ 2007-04-22 22:56 ` Kenichi Handa
2 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Kenichi Handa @ 2007-04-22 22:56 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: cyd, rms, emacs-devel
In article <ufy6tgl7w.fsf@gnu.org>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> > Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> > From: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
> > Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:25:20 -0400
> >
> > We know exactly what patches went into the tree, and that they are not
> > risky. So I think the situation is OK.
> In software, you can never know such things for certain, and the more
> changes you make, the less certain you are in the outcome.
> So I think we need another pretest, but if I'm the only one, so be it.
I agree with Eli on this matter.
---
Kenichi Handa
handa@m17n.org
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-21 19:25 ` Chong Yidong
2007-04-21 20:02 ` Glenn Morris
2007-04-22 3:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2007-04-22 16:35 ` Richard Stallman
2007-04-22 20:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2007-04-22 16:35 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Chong Yidong; +Cc: eliz, emacs-devel
On Monday, I will cut the branch and roll a candidate Emacs 22.1
tarball. If no immediate problems are found with that tarball, I
think we can make that the official release.
There are some discussions about bug fixes going on just now.
I don't recall whether all of them have been resolved yet.
Please verify that they have been, before you make that candidate
tarball.
Meanwhile, there is another issue. The candidate tarball
must not have "22.1" as the version number! It has to be
labeled as a pretest, not as a release. If all goes well,
_the same source files_ can be the release. But it can't
be the same tarball!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
* Re: Release schedule
2007-04-22 16:35 ` Richard Stallman
@ 2007-04-22 20:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2007-04-22 20:42 UTC (permalink / raw
To: rms; +Cc: cyd, emacs-devel
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:35:36 -0400
> Cc: eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> If all goes well, _the same source files_ can be the release. But
> it can't be the same tarball!
Actually, even the sources cannot be the same, since various files
have the version embedded in them, and the "Version 22.1 released."
thing needs to be added to all ChangeLog files.
But I'm quite sure Chong knows all this, since we discussed that in a
not very distant past.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2007-04-23 6:12 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 21+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2007-04-20 21:53 Release schedule Richard Stallman
2007-04-21 3:38 ` Chong Yidong
2007-04-21 10:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-04-21 19:25 ` Chong Yidong
2007-04-21 20:02 ` Glenn Morris
2007-04-21 20:14 ` Chong Yidong
2007-04-21 20:17 ` Glenn Morris
2007-04-21 22:31 ` Nick Roberts
2007-04-21 23:02 ` Glenn Morris
2007-04-22 3:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-04-22 8:11 ` Juanma Barranquero
2007-04-22 10:33 ` Kim F. Storm
2007-04-22 11:13 ` David Kastrup
2007-04-23 3:48 ` Richard Stallman
2007-04-23 5:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2007-04-23 6:12 ` David Kastrup
2007-04-22 11:51 ` Romain Francoise
2007-04-22 14:20 ` Chong Yidong
2007-04-22 22:56 ` Kenichi Handa
2007-04-22 16:35 ` Richard Stallman
2007-04-22 20:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
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