[sdl.web@gmail.com: misbehaviour of outline-backward-same-level]

[sdl.web@gmail.com: misbehaviour of outline-backward-same-level]

[Richard Stallman]

Would someone please DTRT and ack?

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From: Leo <sdl.web@gmail.com>
To: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:53:09 +0100
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Subject: misbehaviour of outline-backward-same-level

- --=-=-=

`outline-backward-same-level' will move from a heading line to a
non-heading line when on the first level-1 heading.

To reproduce:
   o  Open the attached file
   o  Go to "* Head 1"
   o  "C-c C-b" (which runs the command outline-backward-same-level)
   o  Cursor moved to the first line of the buffer


- --=-=-=
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=sample.txt
Content-Description: sample.txt

- -*-outline-*-

This is some random text.

* Head 1
* Head 2
** Item 1
** Item 2
* Head 3

- --=-=-=


The bug causes some trouble in org mode (which derives from outline
mode). See:

    http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/1570

- --
Leo

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Re: [sdl.web@gmail.com: misbehaviour of outline-backward-same-level]

[Thien-Thi Nguyen]

() Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
() Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:41:44 -0400

   `outline-backward-same-level' will move from a heading line to a
   non-heading line when on the first level-1 heading.

   To reproduce:
      o  Open the attached file
      o  Go to "* Head 1"
      o  "C-c C-b" (which runs the command outline-backward-same-level)
      o  Cursor moved to the first line of the buffer

docstring sez:

   Move backward to the ARG'th subheading at same level as this one.
   Stop at the first and last subheadings of a superior heading.

since there is no superior level for the top-level, the current
behavior seems reasonable.  it is analogous to what happens when you
hold down `C-M-a' in ~/.emacs; it is coherent in that respect for the
general "go backward before first top-level" case.  i see no need to
change it.

if downstream code depends on some particular non-standard behavior,
then i would urge those dependencies to be examined and either removed
or reworked.

on the other hand, in similar spirit i suggested postponing the
definition of `turn-off-hideshow' but that was not agreed upon, so
perhaps my interpretation of the vague concepts of cohesion, harmony
and long-term maintenance burden, are themselves not "in the outline"
(yuk yuk) of the emacs hackers' practice.

in any case, what is the dependency?  ie, how does org mode misbehave
given current `outline-backward-same-level' behavior?

thi

Re: [sdl.web@gmail.com: misbehaviour of outline-backward-same-level]

[Leo]

Dear Thien-Thi,

----- Thien-Thi Nguyen (2007-04-13) wrote:-----

> () Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> () Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:41:44 -0400
>
>    `outline-backward-same-level' will move from a heading line to a
>    non-heading line when on the first level-1 heading.
>
>    To reproduce:
>       o  Open the attached file
>       o  Go to "* Head 1"
>       o  "C-c C-b" (which runs the command outline-backward-same-level)
>       o  Cursor moved to the first line of the buffer
>
> docstring sez:
>
>    Move backward to the ARG'th subheading at same level as this one.
>    Stop at the first and last subheadings of a superior heading.
>
> since there is no superior level for the top-level, the current
> behavior seems reasonable.  it is analogous to what happens when you
> hold down `C-M-a' in ~/.emacs; it is coherent in that respect for the
> general "go backward before first top-level" case.  i see no need to
> change it.

However, C-M-e can then move back to the defun while C-c C-f
('outline-forward-same-level') won't, i.e. users are trapped in the area
above the first heading.

So it needs fixing, one way or the other. But for consistency, fixing
C-c C-f is acceptable also.

> if downstream code depends on some particular non-standard behavior,
> then i would urge those dependencies to be examined and either removed
> or reworked.
>
> on the other hand, in similar spirit i suggested postponing the
> definition of `turn-off-hideshow' but that was not agreed upon, so
> perhaps my interpretation of the vague concepts of cohesion, harmony
> and long-term maintenance burden, are themselves not "in the outline"
> (yuk yuk) of the emacs hackers' practice.
>
> in any case, what is the dependency?  ie, how does org mode misbehave
> given current `outline-backward-same-level' behavior?

Org uses outline's functions for navigating. So it has exactly the same
behavior as outline.

regards,
-- 
Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)

Re: [sdl.web@gmail.com: misbehaviour of outline-backward-same-level]

[Leo]

----- Me (2007-04-13) wrote:-----

>> since there is no superior level for the top-level, the current
>> behavior seems reasonable.  it is analogous to what happens when you
>> hold down `C-M-a' in ~/.emacs; it is coherent in that respect for the
>> general "go backward before first top-level" case.  i see no need to
>> change it.

To see the consistency, compare:

         | elisp | outline |
         |-------+---------|
         | C-M-a | C-c C-p |
         | C-M-e | C-c C-n |

So now I believe...

> However, C-M-e can then move back to the defun while C-c C-f
> ('outline-forward-same-level') won't, i.e. users are trapped in the
> area above the first heading.
>
> So it needs fixing, one way or the other. But for consistency, fixing
> C-c C-f is acceptable also.

the behavior with Chong's patch is more correct.

-- 
Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)