* FW: Emacs non-ascii characters
@ 2005-11-21 19:26 Drew Adams
2005-11-21 19:40 ` Henrik Enberg
` (3 more replies)
0 siblings, 4 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2005-11-21 19:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: John Russell
This makes me wonder if `C-\' isn't a bad binding for such a command. Should
toggling the input method be on a key binding that is easy to hit by
mistake?
I don't use that command, so I don't know if it needs to be on a quickly hit
key. If not, should we perhaps move it to a binding with a prefix (e.g.
C-x)?
- Drew
-----Original Message-----
From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+drew.adams=oracle.com@gnu.org
[mailto:help-gnu-emacs-bounces+drew.adams=oracle.com@gnu.org]On Behalf
Of John Russell
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 11:20 AM
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs non-ascii characters
Pascal Bourguignon <spam@mouse-potato.com> writes:
> John Russell <jorussel@cisco.com> writes:
>
>> I just compiled emacs from CVS a few weeks ago. When I enter a
double-quote
>> and then some characters ( usually vowels ) the two characters get
replaced
>> with some other character, like a 'u' with an umlaut or some other accent
>> mark.
>>
>> I have been searching around for it but I don't even know what this
"feature"
>> is called. I looked in the emacs news ( C-h n ) and found something
about
>> quail which I'm not sure is related.
>>
>> Anyway, how do I turn this off? I want to be able to type strings in code
>> again without accents. Thanks.
>
> This is a prefix input method.
>
> You can try: C-\
> to toggle-input-method.
>
> Or C-x set-input-method RET
> to select another input method.
>
> Perhaps set the default input method?
> C-h v default-input-method RET
>
Excellent. Thank you very much. I must have been fat-fingering
C-\ from time to time and turning that on inadvertantly. Thanks again. John
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-21 19:26 FW: Emacs non-ascii characters Drew Adams @ 2005-11-21 19:40 ` Henrik Enberg 2005-11-21 22:09 ` Eli Zaretskii ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Henrik Enberg @ 2005-11-21 19:40 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, emacs-devel > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:26:16 -0800 > > This makes me wonder if `C-\' isn't a bad binding for such a command. Should > toggling the input method be on a key binding that is easy to hit by > mistake? > > I don't use that command, so I don't know if it needs to be on a quickly hit > key. If not, should we perhaps move it to a binding with a prefix (e.g. > C-x)? (global-set-key (kbd "C-\\") (lambda () (interactive) (when (y-or-n-p "Really toggle input method? ") (call-interactively 'toggle-input-method)))) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-21 19:26 FW: Emacs non-ascii characters Drew Adams 2005-11-21 19:40 ` Henrik Enberg @ 2005-11-21 22:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 2005-11-21 22:24 ` Drew Adams 2005-11-21 22:27 ` Paul Pogonyshev 2005-11-21 23:14 ` Jason Rumney 2005-11-22 2:21 ` Richard M. Stallman 3 siblings, 2 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2005-11-21 22:09 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, emacs-devel > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:26:16 -0800 > Cc: John Russell <jorussel@cisco.com> > > This makes me wonder if `C-\' isn't a bad binding for such a command. Should > toggling the input method be on a key binding that is easy to hit by > mistake? ``Easy to hit by mistake''? IMHO, no key combination is so _hard_ to hit by mistake as C-\. On some non-US keyboards it's almost impossible to hit by mistake, since it requires to use the AltGr key. I do use input methods a lot, and yet I have never hit that key combo by mistake until now. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* RE: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-21 22:09 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2005-11-21 22:24 ` Drew Adams 2005-11-21 23:20 ` Jason Rumney 2005-11-21 22:27 ` Paul Pogonyshev 1 sibling, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2005-11-21 22:24 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel > This makes me wonder if `C-\' isn't a bad binding for such a command. Should > toggling the input method be on a key binding that is easy to hit by > mistake? ``Easy to hit by mistake''? IMHO, no key combination is so _hard_ to hit by mistake as C-\. On some non-US keyboards it's almost impossible to hit by mistake, since it requires to use the AltGr key. I do use input methods a lot, and yet I have never hit that key combo by mistake until now. Well, I won't argue about it much - it's not a problem I've run into; I'm just the messenger. WRT the difficulty of accidentally hitting `C-\' - I have only standard, US PC keyboards, probably the most common keyboards there are currently. `C-\' is very easy to hit by mistake: `\' is just above the Enter key and just to the right of `]'. There is nothing hard about hitting `\', and one could easily hit `C-\' when trying to hit `C-]' (abort-recursive-edit). `C-\' could also be hit easily by mistake using Shift instead of Control: `|' is the shifted version of `\' and `}' is the shifted version of `]'. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-21 22:24 ` Drew Adams @ 2005-11-21 23:20 ` Jason Rumney 2005-11-21 23:27 ` Drew Adams 2005-11-25 7:37 ` Kenichi Handa 0 siblings, 2 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Jason Rumney @ 2005-11-21 23:20 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, emacs-devel Drew Adams wrote: >I have only standard, US PC keyboards, probably the most common keyboards >there are currently. `C-\' is very easy to hit by mistake: `\' is just above >the Enter key and just to the right of `]'. There is nothing hard about >hitting `\', and one could easily hit `C-\' when trying to hit `C-]' >(abort-recursive-edit). > > Perhaps if the current locale is en_US (and other en variants, since many use the US layout and have little need for input methods), then C-\ should not automatically select an input method the first time it is hit. Then the user will be prompted and can hit C-g. This will overcome the problem that if it is hit by accident by someone who knows nothing about input methods, they have no way of knowing what has gone wrong. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* RE: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-21 23:20 ` Jason Rumney @ 2005-11-21 23:27 ` Drew Adams 2005-11-21 23:36 ` John Russell (jorussel) 2005-11-22 0:38 ` David Kastrup 2005-11-25 7:37 ` Kenichi Handa 1 sibling, 2 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2005-11-21 23:27 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel Perhaps if the current locale is en_US (and other en variants, since many use the US layout and have little need for input methods), then C-\ should not automatically select an input method the first time it is hit. Then the user will be prompted and can hit C-g. This will overcome the problem that if it is hit by accident by someone who knows nothing about input methods, they have no way of knowing what has gone wrong. That sounds like a good approach, provided the initial prompt were only asked the first time (and the setting remembered persistently, via Customize). But again, I can't speak for people who use this. Would en_US users who use `C-\' be bothered by an initial prompt? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* RE: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-21 23:27 ` Drew Adams @ 2005-11-21 23:36 ` John Russell (jorussel) 2005-11-22 0:38 ` David Kastrup 1 sibling, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: John Russell (jorussel) @ 2005-11-21 23:36 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1444 bytes --] I have to say, now that I know what happened this will never really bug me again, but sweet Jahosafat it was annoying for a long time until I asked the list. I think that that this could be handled like set-goal-column or downcase-region or upcase-region or narrow-to-region all of which need to be manually disabled once. They all fit the same mold. Some really useful and seemingly innocuous feature that could confuse the smack out of some poor unsuspecting user. John ________________________________ From: Drew Adams [mailto:drew.adams@oracle.com] Sent: Mon 2005-11-21 18:27 To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cc: John Russell (jorussel) Subject: RE: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters Perhaps if the current locale is en_US (and other en variants, since many use the US layout and have little need for input methods), then C-\ should not automatically select an input method the first time it is hit. Then the user will be prompted and can hit C-g. This will overcome the problem that if it is hit by accident by someone who knows nothing about input methods, they have no way of knowing what has gone wrong. That sounds like a good approach, provided the initial prompt were only asked the first time (and the setting remembered persistently, via Customize). But again, I can't speak for people who use this. Would en_US users who use `C-\' be bothered by an initial prompt? [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2336 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 142 bytes --] _______________________________________________ Emacs-devel mailing list Emacs-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-21 23:27 ` Drew Adams 2005-11-21 23:36 ` John Russell (jorussel) @ 2005-11-22 0:38 ` David Kastrup 1 sibling, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: David Kastrup @ 2005-11-22 0:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, emacs-devel "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes: > Perhaps if the current locale is en_US (and other en variants, since > many use the US layout and have little need for input methods), > then C-\ > should not automatically select an input method the first time it is > hit. Then the user will be prompted and can hit C-g. This will overcome > the problem that if it is hit by accident by someone who knows nothing > about input methods, they have no way of knowing what has gone wrong. > > That sounds like a good approach, provided the initial prompt were > only asked the first time (and the setting remembered persistently, > via Customize). > > But again, I can't speak for people who use this. Would en_US users > who use `C-\' be bothered by an initial prompt? Yes. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-21 23:20 ` Jason Rumney 2005-11-21 23:27 ` Drew Adams @ 2005-11-25 7:37 ` Kenichi Handa 2005-11-25 10:14 ` Jason Rumney 2005-11-26 4:23 ` Richard M. Stallman 1 sibling, 2 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Kenichi Handa @ 2005-11-25 7:37 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, drew.adams, emacs-devel In article <43825633.5040403@gnu.org>, Jason Rumney <jasonr@gnu.org> writes: > Perhaps if the current locale is en_US (and other en variants, since > many use the US layout and have little need for input methods), then C-\ > should not automatically select an input method the first time it is > hit. Then the user will be prompted and can hit C-g. This will overcome > the problem that if it is hit by accident by someone who knows nothing > about input methods, they have no way of knowing what has gone wrong. If the current locale is not set or "C", emacs starts with "English" lang. env., default-input-method is not set, thus C-\ prompts you to specify an input method. But if the locale is "en_US", emacs starts with "Latin-1" lang. env. because of this entry. (defconst locale-language-names [...] ;; Users who specify "en" explicitly typically want Latin-1, not ASCII. ;; That's actually what the GNU locales define, modulo things like ;; en_IN -- fx. ("en_IN" "English" utf-8) ; glibc uses utf-8 for English in India ("en" . "Latin-1") ; English And, in this lang. env., default-input-method is set to latin-1-prefix, thus C-\ automatically activates it. If this situation is not good, have about this change. *************** *** 2129,2135 **** ;; That's actually what the GNU locales define, modulo things like ;; en_IN -- fx. ("en_IN" "English" utf-8) ; glibc uses utf-8 for English in India ! ("en" . "Latin-1") ; English ("eo" . "Latin-3") ; Esperanto ("es" "Spanish" iso-8859-1) ("et" . "Latin-1") ; Estonian --- 2138,2144 ---- ;; That's actually what the GNU locales define, modulo things like ;; en_IN -- fx. ("en_IN" "English" utf-8) ; glibc uses utf-8 for English in India ! ("en" "English" iso-8859-1) ; English ("eo" . "Latin-3") ; Esperanto ("es" "Spanish" iso-8859-1) ("et" . "Latin-1") ; Estonian Then, emacs starts with English lang. env. but the default coding systems are set to iso-8859-1. Shall I install this change? --- Kenichi Handa handa@m17n.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-25 7:37 ` Kenichi Handa @ 2005-11-25 10:14 ` Jason Rumney 2005-11-25 14:37 ` Aidan Kehoe 2005-11-26 4:23 ` Richard M. Stallman 1 sibling, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Jason Rumney @ 2005-11-25 10:14 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, drew.adams, emacs-devel Kenichi Handa wrote: >If this situation is not good, have about this change. > >*************** >*** 2129,2135 **** > ;; That's actually what the GNU locales define, modulo things like > ;; en_IN -- fx. > ("en_IN" "English" utf-8) ; glibc uses utf-8 for English in India >! ("en" . "Latin-1") ; English > ("eo" . "Latin-3") ; Esperanto > ("es" "Spanish" iso-8859-1) > ("et" . "Latin-1") ; Estonian >--- 2138,2144 ---- > ;; That's actually what the GNU locales define, modulo things like > ;; en_IN -- fx. > ("en_IN" "English" utf-8) ; glibc uses utf-8 for English in India >! ("en" "English" iso-8859-1) ; English > ("eo" . "Latin-3") ; Esperanto > ("es" "Spanish" iso-8859-1) > ("et" . "Latin-1") ; Estonian > > > en_GB at least needs to default to Latin-1 because of the pound sign. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-25 10:14 ` Jason Rumney @ 2005-11-25 14:37 ` Aidan Kehoe 2005-11-25 14:51 ` Jason Rumney 0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Aidan Kehoe @ 2005-11-25 14:37 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, emacs-devel, drew.adams, Kenichi Handa Ar an cúigiú lá is fiche de mí na Samhain, scríobh Jason Rumney: > Kenichi Handa wrote: > > >If this situation is not good, have about this change. > > > >*************** > >*** 2129,2135 **** > > ;; That's actually what the GNU locales define, modulo things like > > ;; en_IN -- fx. > > ("en_IN" "English" utf-8) ; glibc uses utf-8 for English in India > >! ("en" . "Latin-1") ; English > > ("eo" . "Latin-3") ; Esperanto > > ("es" "Spanish" iso-8859-1) > > ("et" . "Latin-1") ; Estonian > >--- 2138,2144 ---- > > ;; That's actually what the GNU locales define, modulo things like > > ;; en_IN -- fx. > > ("en_IN" "English" utf-8) ; glibc uses utf-8 for English in India > >! ("en" "English" iso-8859-1) ; English > > ("eo" . "Latin-3") ; Esperanto > > ("es" "Spanish" iso-8859-1) > > ("et" . "Latin-1") ; Estonian > > > > > > > en_GB at least needs to default to Latin-1 because of the pound sign. That’s a non-sequitur. en_GB environments typically have the pound sign available on the keyboard, and don’t need an input method for it. Latin-1 is a sane default for English, because of words like café, façade, naïve that orthographically need it, even if this need has been ignored. -- I AM IN JAIL AND ALLOWED SEND ONLY ONE CABLE SINCE WAS ARRESTED WHILE MEASURING FIFTEEN FOOT WALL OUTSIDE PALACE AND HAVE JUST FINISHED COUNTING THIRTY EIGHT THOUSAND FIVE HUNDERED TWENTY TWO NAMES WHOS WHO IN MIDEAST. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-25 14:37 ` Aidan Kehoe @ 2005-11-25 14:51 ` Jason Rumney 2005-11-25 22:49 ` Aidan Kehoe 0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Jason Rumney @ 2005-11-25 14:51 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, emacs-devel, drew.adams, Kenichi Handa Aidan Kehoe wrote: > > en_GB at least needs to default to Latin-1 because of the pound sign. > >That’s a non-sequitur. en_GB environments typically have the pound sign >available on the keyboard, and don’t need an input method for it. > > Right, but the variable in question sets up a Language Environment, which is a lot more than just input-method. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-25 14:51 ` Jason Rumney @ 2005-11-25 22:49 ` Aidan Kehoe 0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Aidan Kehoe @ 2005-11-25 22:49 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, Kenichi Handa, drew.adams, emacs-devel Ar an cúigiú lá is fiche de mí na Samhain, scríobh Jason Rumney: > > > en_GB at least needs to default to Latin-1 because of the pound sign. > > > >That’s a non-sequitur. en_GB environments typically have the pound sign > >available on the keyboard, and don’t need an input method for it. > > Right, but the variable in question sets up a Language Environment, > which is a lot more than just input-method. Yeah, but the “lot more” doesn’t matter for en_GB English versus US English. If a character isn’t in US-ASCII, the “English” environment goes for ISO 8859-1, which eliminates any incompatibilities with the Latin-1 environment, _except for_ the input method. -- I AM IN JAIL AND ALLOWED SEND ONLY ONE CABLE SINCE WAS ARRESTED WHILE MEASURING FIFTEEN FOOT WALL OUTSIDE PALACE AND HAVE JUST FINISHED COUNTING THIRTY EIGHT THOUSAND FIVE HUNDERED TWENTY TWO NAMES WHOS WHO IN MIDEAST. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-25 7:37 ` Kenichi Handa 2005-11-25 10:14 ` Jason Rumney @ 2005-11-26 4:23 ` Richard M. Stallman 2005-11-26 7:46 ` Kenichi Handa 1 sibling, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Richard M. Stallman @ 2005-11-26 4:23 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, emacs-devel, drew.adams, jasonr But if the locale is "en_US", emacs starts with "Latin-1" lang. env. because of this entry. I don't understand why that was done, since this comment is not very clear. ;; Users who specify "en" explicitly typically want Latin-1, not ASCII. ;; That's actually what the GNU locales define, modulo things like ;; en_IN -- fx. but I also don't see why we would want to change it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-26 4:23 ` Richard M. Stallman @ 2005-11-26 7:46 ` Kenichi Handa 2005-11-26 8:20 ` Kenichi Handa ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Kenichi Handa @ 2005-11-26 7:46 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, emacs-devel, drew.adams, jasonr In article <E1EfrbE-0003zu-R7@fencepost.gnu.org>, "Richard M. Stallman" <rms@gnu.org> writes: > But if the > locale is "en_US", emacs starts with "Latin-1" lang. env. because > of this entry. > I don't understand why that was done, > since this comment is not very clear. > ;; Users who specify "en" explicitly typically want Latin-1, not ASCII. > ;; That's actually what the GNU locales define, modulo things like > ;; en_IN -- fx. I don't the wording "modulo things like en_IN". But, I think he wanted to indicate this data in /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED. en_US ISO-8859-1 en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8 en_IN UTF-8 It says that in en_US locale, the encoding iso-8859-1 is supported, but, in en_US.UTF-8 and en_IN, the encoding UTF-8 is supported. So, I think, in en_US locale, setting the default coding system to iso-8859-1 is the right thing. Currently, we do that by setting "Latin-1" lang. env. But that sets default-input-method to latin-1-prefix, thus C-\ automatically activates it. > but I also don't see why we would want to change it. By the change, emacs started under en_US locale is put in "English" lang. env. (thus default-input-method is not set) but the default conding systems are still set to iso-8859-1. --- Kenichi Handa handa@m17n.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-26 7:46 ` Kenichi Handa @ 2005-11-26 8:20 ` Kenichi Handa 2005-11-26 9:33 ` David Kastrup 2005-11-26 9:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 2005-11-27 0:31 ` Richard M. Stallman 2 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Kenichi Handa @ 2005-11-26 8:20 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, jasonr, rms, drew.adams, emacs-devel In article <E1Efulh-0000h9-00@etlken>, Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org> writes: > I don't the wording "modulo things like en_IN". But, I Oops, I mean: > I don't understand the wording "modulo things like en_IN". But, I --- Kenichi Handa handa@m17n.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-26 8:20 ` Kenichi Handa @ 2005-11-26 9:33 ` David Kastrup 0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: David Kastrup @ 2005-11-26 9:33 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org> writes: > In article <E1Efulh-0000h9-00@etlken>, Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org> writes: > >> I don't the wording "modulo things like en_IN". But, I > > Oops, I mean: > >> I don't understand the wording "modulo things like en_IN". But, I It is sort of a lame mathematical joke. Replace "modulo" with "not considering". 5 = 13 (modulo 8) (namely when 8 and its multiples are considered equivalent to 0) Typical use in colloquial speech: I feel fine modulo a slight headache. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-26 7:46 ` Kenichi Handa 2005-11-26 8:20 ` Kenichi Handa @ 2005-11-26 9:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 2005-11-27 0:31 ` Richard M. Stallman 2 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2005-11-26 9:04 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, emacs-devel > From: Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:46:45 +0900 > Cc: jorussel@cisco.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, > jasonr@gnu.org > > > ;; Users who specify "en" explicitly typically want Latin-1, not ASCII. > > ;; That's actually what the GNU locales define, modulo things like > > ;; en_IN -- fx. > > I don't the wording "modulo things like en_IN". It means that en_IN is excluded from whatever the preceding text described. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-26 7:46 ` Kenichi Handa 2005-11-26 8:20 ` Kenichi Handa 2005-11-26 9:04 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2005-11-27 0:31 ` Richard M. Stallman 2005-12-05 7:40 ` Kenichi Handa 2 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Richard M. Stallman @ 2005-11-27 0:31 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, emacs-devel, drew.adams, jasonr So, I think, in en_US locale, setting the default coding system to iso-8859-1 is the right thing. Currently, we do that by setting "Latin-1" lang. env. But that sets default-input-method to latin-1-prefix, thus C-\ automatically activates it. I see the issue. I agree that it should not set default-input-method. Thanks for dealing with this. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-27 0:31 ` Richard M. Stallman @ 2005-12-05 7:40 ` Kenichi Handa 0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Kenichi Handa @ 2005-12-05 7:40 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, emacs-devel, drew.adams, jasonr In article <E1EgASJ-0000HI-7q@fencepost.gnu.org>, "Richard M. Stallman" <rms@gnu.org> writes: > So, I think, in en_US locale, setting the default coding > system to iso-8859-1 is the right thing. Currently, we do > that by setting "Latin-1" lang. env. But that sets > default-input-method to latin-1-prefix, thus C-\ > automatically activates it. > I see the issue. I agree that it should not set default-input-method. > Thanks for dealing with this. I've just installed the change I proposed. --- Kenichi Handa handa@m17n.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-21 22:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 2005-11-21 22:24 ` Drew Adams @ 2005-11-21 22:27 ` Paul Pogonyshev 2005-11-21 22:29 ` Drew Adams 1 sibling, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Paul Pogonyshev @ 2005-11-21 22:27 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, Drew Adams Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:26:16 -0800 > > Cc: John Russell <jorussel@cisco.com> > > > > This makes me wonder if `C-\' isn't a bad binding for such a command. Should > > toggling the input method be on a key binding that is easy to hit by > > mistake? > > ``Easy to hit by mistake''? IMHO, no key combination is so _hard_ to > hit by mistake as C-\. On some non-US keyboards it's almost > impossible to hit by mistake, since it requires to use the AltGr key. > > I do use input methods a lot, and yet I have never hit that key combo > by mistake until now. On some keyboards (like mine) the `\' key is right next to the Backspace key, which makes `C-\' very close to `C-Backspace'. That said, I always use `M-Backspace' and I don't think it is a good idea to change such a commonly-used shortcut as `C-\' at all. Paul ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* RE: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-21 22:27 ` Paul Pogonyshev @ 2005-11-21 22:29 ` Drew Adams 2005-11-21 22:58 ` Paul Pogonyshev 0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2005-11-21 22:29 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel On some keyboards (like mine) the `\' key is right next to the Backspace key, which makes `C-\' very close to `C-Backspace'. Right. I forgot about that one. I'd say, in sum, that with lots of common keyboards it is quite easy to hit `C-\' by mistake. That said, I always use `M-Backspace' and I don't think it is a good idea to change such a commonly-used shortcut as `C-\' at all. That was my question: whether "it needs to be on a quickly hit key." If it is quick and handy for those who use it, then fine. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-21 22:29 ` Drew Adams @ 2005-11-21 22:58 ` Paul Pogonyshev 0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Paul Pogonyshev @ 2005-11-21 22:58 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, Drew Adams Drew Adams wrote: > On some keyboards (like mine) the `\' key is right next to the Backspace > key, which makes `C-\' very close to `C-Backspace'. > > Right. I forgot about that one. I'd say, in sum, that with lots of common keyboards it is quite easy to hit `C-\' by mistake. > > That said, I always > use `M-Backspace' and I don't think it is a good idea to change such a > commonly-used shortcut as `C-\' at all. > > That was my question: whether "it needs to be on a quickly hit key." If it is quick and handy for those who use it, then fine. I'd say that it is just not worth the problems of all the users out there to change an established shortcut. Even if you hit it by accident, that's not a major problem. It's not like `C-M-Backspace' that restarts the X server. Paul ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-21 19:26 FW: Emacs non-ascii characters Drew Adams 2005-11-21 19:40 ` Henrik Enberg 2005-11-21 22:09 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2005-11-21 23:14 ` Jason Rumney 2005-11-25 8:13 ` Miles Bader 2005-11-22 2:21 ` Richard M. Stallman 3 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread From: Jason Rumney @ 2005-11-21 23:14 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: John Russell, Emacs-Devel Drew Adams wrote: >This makes me wonder if `C-\' isn't a bad binding for such a command. Should >toggling the input method be on a key binding that is easy to hit by >mistake? > >I don't use that command, so I don't know if it needs to be on a quickly hit >key. > IMHO it does. If you are writing multilingual text (eg a programming language with comments in your native language), then you need to switch between input methods very frequently. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-21 23:14 ` Jason Rumney @ 2005-11-25 8:13 ` Miles Bader 0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Miles Bader @ 2005-11-25 8:13 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: John Russell, Drew Adams, Emacs-Devel 2005/11/22, Jason Rumney <jasonr@gnu.org>: > >I don't use that command, so I don't know if it needs to be on a quickly hit > >key. > > IMHO it does. If you are writing multilingual text (eg a programming > language with comments in your native language), then you need to switch > between input methods very frequently. Yes, you are right. This command needs to be very easy to type. The binding should definitely not be changed! -Miles -- Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
* Re: FW: Emacs non-ascii characters 2005-11-21 19:26 FW: Emacs non-ascii characters Drew Adams ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2005-11-21 23:14 ` Jason Rumney @ 2005-11-22 2:21 ` Richard M. Stallman 3 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread From: Richard M. Stallman @ 2005-11-22 2:21 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jorussel, emacs-devel This makes me wonder if `C-\' isn't a bad binding for such a command. Should toggling the input method be on a key binding that is easy to hit by mistake? Please don't suggest changes in features that were in Emacs 21. It is a distraction from the bug-fixing we need to do. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2005-12-05 7:40 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 26+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2005-11-21 19:26 FW: Emacs non-ascii characters Drew Adams 2005-11-21 19:40 ` Henrik Enberg 2005-11-21 22:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 2005-11-21 22:24 ` Drew Adams 2005-11-21 23:20 ` Jason Rumney 2005-11-21 23:27 ` Drew Adams 2005-11-21 23:36 ` John Russell (jorussel) 2005-11-22 0:38 ` David Kastrup 2005-11-25 7:37 ` Kenichi Handa 2005-11-25 10:14 ` Jason Rumney 2005-11-25 14:37 ` Aidan Kehoe 2005-11-25 14:51 ` Jason Rumney 2005-11-25 22:49 ` Aidan Kehoe 2005-11-26 4:23 ` Richard M. Stallman 2005-11-26 7:46 ` Kenichi Handa 2005-11-26 8:20 ` Kenichi Handa 2005-11-26 9:33 ` David Kastrup 2005-11-26 9:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 2005-11-27 0:31 ` Richard M. Stallman 2005-12-05 7:40 ` Kenichi Handa 2005-11-21 22:27 ` Paul Pogonyshev 2005-11-21 22:29 ` Drew Adams 2005-11-21 22:58 ` Paul Pogonyshev 2005-11-21 23:14 ` Jason Rumney 2005-11-25 8:13 ` Miles Bader 2005-11-22 2:21 ` Richard M. Stallman
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