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* RE: File menu changes (suggestions) / Options menu
@ 2005-06-21 15:51 David Reitter
  2005-06-22 12:32 ` File menu changes (suggestions) John S. Yates, Jr.
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: David Reitter @ 2005-06-21 15:51 UTC (permalink / raw)


Drew Adams wrote:

> 1. "Save Buffer As" runs command `write-file'. Where's the beef - er -
> "buffer"?
> 2. "Save (current buffer)" runs command `save-buffer'.
> 3. "Close (current buffer)" runs command `kill-this-buffer'.
> 4. "Revert Buffer" runs command `revert-buffer'.

It doesn't matter what command names are behind the menu entries.  
Some of the command names seem inconsistent anyways, and a user  
doesn't necessarily care for command names. A user wants to save the  
current buffer. She can either save it, or save it "as" something.  
Hence, the menu entries should be "Save" and "Save as...". If we need  
to inform the user how to do the same thing with keyboard commands,  
we do so afterwards. If the user wants to access the stuff  
programmatically (very rare), he can always do a C-h k.

> So "New File" says that a new file is created? Yes, it says that,  
> but it
> tells not the truth: no file is created by this operation.

The version I'm working with has "Open" (not New), and if it is  
"New" (but means find-file), it should be renamed. "new" creates  
something new, i.e. an empty buffer - and doesn't load an existing  
file. The problem may be that find-file can also create a new file.  
If you want to stick with that, rename the entry to "New/Open..."

> > 5. Move all of the window and frame stuff to a new menu, "Frames".
>
>     Not good: we have a crammed menu bar already, adding more top- 
> level
>     items would only make things worse with no real advantage.
>
> Agreed. But 1) this stuff has little to do with "File"; 2) use of a
> "Windows" menu, having a similar purpose, is common in other apps;  
> 3) I
> think it is likely that we will have more frame and window commands  
> to add
> to a Frames menu in the future.

I agree with both of you. I would suggest to stick it in the Buffers  
menu. There is room for it, and we have a "Frames" submenu in the  
Buffers menu when there is more than one frame. It would nicely  
correlate to the "Windows" menu existing in standard GUIs, but  
because so many people work with a single frame and switch between  
buffers, it makes sense to stick to the menu title "buffers" and have  
frames as a submenu, and split/unsplit on the top-level hierarchy,  
separated with a line separator.

Can I make another suggestion?
Some items in the Options menu are buffer-local (truncate-lines),  
while most are global. It would be smart to separate the two kinds of  
items.
I'm not sure about the "case-insensitive search". In Aquamacs, I have  
moved it to the Edit/search sub-menu.

It would also be good if someone could work on making "Set Font/ 
Fontset" a proper sub-menu (this might be Carbon specific, I don't  
know).

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: File menu changes (suggestions)
@ 2005-06-30  8:53 LENNART BORGMAN
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 96+ messages in thread
From: LENNART BORGMAN @ 2005-06-30  8:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: Eli Zaretskii, snogglethorpe, emacs-devel, Stefan Monnier, miles

From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>

> I think the main point is that the mode is set from auto-mode-alist,
> and that things like auto-insert work.  Specifying the file name saves
> specifying mode and stuff.

And understanding how the mode is choosen is one of the difficult things for beginners (and several others;-)

I would suggest that New Something always gets a file name. And I would suggest that the user picks this as now.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: File menu changes (suggestions)
@ 2005-06-27  8:04 LENNART BORGMAN
  2005-06-27  9:24 ` Miles Bader
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: LENNART BORGMAN @ 2005-06-27  8:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: David Reitter, emacs-devel

From: "Richard M. Stallman" <rms@gnu.org>

>     > Maybe instead "New File Buffer"? It is actually a new 
> buffer that  
>    is setup so that it will be associated with a file.
> 
>    I think that'd be the ideal.
>    I think many people can't associate much with the concept of 
> "visiting".
> I explained why I don't like "New File Buffer".  Instead of "Visit",
> maybe some other verb is clearer, such as "Start", "Prepare", "Edit".

I believe "New <something/nothing>" is far better than your last suggestions. They are not familiar in this context.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: File menu changes (suggestions)
@ 2005-06-26 19:04 David Reitter
  2005-06-27  5:37 ` Richard M. Stallman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: David Reitter @ 2005-06-26 19:04 UTC (permalink / raw)


Lennart Borgman wrote:

 > Maybe instead "New File Buffer"? It is actually a new buffer that  
is setup so that it will be associated with a file.

I think that'd be the ideal.
I think many people can't associate much with the concept of "visiting".

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* File menu changes (suggestions)
@ 2005-06-19 23:25 Drew Adams
  2005-06-20  4:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
  2005-06-26  4:46 ` Richard M. Stallman
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 96+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2005-06-19 23:25 UTC (permalink / raw)


Suggestions to change some File menu items. A few of the renamings might be
considered for this release.

1. Unsplit Windows is a very poor name. It doesn't give you a hint of what
it does; in particular, it doesn't suggest that the current window is the
only one that will remain displayed.

It should be named something like `Delete Other Windows' or simply
`One Window'.

2. Don't reference "buffer" or "file" in File menu items, when this just
refers to the current buffer/file (or the one that will become current). The
unreferenced object in a File menu item is understood to be the current
buffer/file. And the distinction between file and buffer is not needed here.

 - New File                    -> New (but Open is better - see 3, below)
 - Save (current buffer)       -> Save
 - Close (current buffer)      -> Close
 - Save Buffer As              -> Save As
 - Print Buffer                -> Print
 - PostScript Print Buffer     -> PostScript Print
 - Revert Buffer               -> Revert

People are used to all of these File commands in other applications. You
don't see "Save Page" or "Close Page" in Web-browsers or "Save File" in
other editors.

In particular:

a. Currently, there is an inconsistency wrt "Buffer" and "(current buffer)".
These should be made consistent, since the same thing (the current buffer)
is involved in each case. It is not as if one acted on the current buffer
and the other prompted for an existing buffer to act upon.

b. New File does not really create a new file; it opens a buffer (new or
existing) that can be saved to a file (new or existing). Not mentioning
"file" and "buffer" avoids the distinction, which doesn't matter here
anyway. Mentioning "file" and "buffer", and using "file" where it should be
"buffer", just misleads. So, New is better than New File (but see 3, below).


3. WRT 2b, it is true that the file or buffer opened need not in fact be
new, so even "New" is misleading. The problem arises because we need a name
to distinguish open-new-or-existing-buffer-for-new-or-existing-file from
Open File (existing file only). A better name for New would be just "Open".
Open File is technically "open existing file", but "Open File" is adequate
for this action, and it fits with Open Directory and Insert File - explicit
mention of "File" suggests an existing file here.


4. A better name for Revert is Reopen. Just as Paste is preferable to Yank
in a menu, so is Reopen preferable to Revert: more users will understand it
immediately.


5. Move all of the window and frame stuff to a new menu, "Frames". This menu
is analogous to the "Buffers" menu.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2005-07-02  2:32 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 96+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2005-06-21 15:51 File menu changes (suggestions) / Options menu David Reitter
2005-06-22 12:32 ` File menu changes (suggestions) John S. Yates, Jr.
2005-06-23  0:46   ` Miles Bader
2005-06-23  2:26     ` John S. Yates, Jr.
2005-06-23  2:31       ` Miles Bader
2005-06-23 11:18         ` John S. Yates, Jr.
2005-06-23 11:39           ` Miles Bader
2005-06-24  5:36           ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-06-25  1:24             ` John S. Yates, Jr.
2005-06-25 16:40               ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-06-24 10:10           ` Eli Zaretskii
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2005-06-30  8:53 LENNART BORGMAN
2005-06-27  8:04 LENNART BORGMAN
2005-06-27  9:24 ` Miles Bader
2005-06-27 20:01   ` Johan Bockgård
2005-06-26 19:04 David Reitter
2005-06-27  5:37 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-06-19 23:25 Drew Adams
2005-06-20  4:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-20  7:03   ` David Kastrup
2005-06-20 16:53   ` Drew Adams
2005-06-20 20:37     ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-20 20:48       ` Drew Adams
2005-06-21  2:01     ` Richard Stallman
2005-06-21  7:59     ` Mathias Dahl
2005-06-21  9:19       ` Miles Bader
2005-06-26  4:46 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-06-26  5:29   ` Lennart Borgman
2005-06-26 22:42     ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-06-26 22:52       ` Lennart Borgman
2005-06-26 23:13       ` Drew Adams
2005-06-27  7:20         ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-27  7:37       ` Kim F. Storm
2005-06-27  9:25         ` Miles Bader
2005-06-27 13:29           ` David Kastrup
2005-06-28  4:16         ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-06-26 18:53   ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-26 18:00     ` Lennart Borgman
2005-06-26 19:09       ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-26 18:20         ` Drew Adams
2005-06-26 19:41           ` John S. Yates, Jr.
     [not found]             ` <42BF0E53.2020505@student.lu.se>
2005-06-27 12:51               ` John S. Yates, Jr.
2005-06-27 13:31                 ` David Kastrup
2005-06-27 17:47                 ` Robert J. Chassell
2005-06-28  1:57                   ` John S. Yates, Jr.
2005-06-27 13:24           ` David Kastrup
2005-06-27 16:18             ` Drew Adams
2005-06-27 18:44             ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-27 18:13               ` Drew Adams
2005-06-27 22:19                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-27 22:33                   ` Drew Adams
2005-06-28  4:53                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-28  6:36                       ` David Kastrup
2005-06-26 18:30     ` Jason Rumney
2005-06-27  2:06       ` Miles Bader
2005-06-27  7:24         ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-27  6:31           ` Miles Bader
2005-06-27 13:26             ` David Kastrup
2005-06-27 18:26               ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-27  9:19         ` Jason Rumney
2005-06-27  9:41           ` Miles Bader
2005-06-27 18:25             ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-27 20:05               ` David Kastrup
2005-06-27 20:47                 ` Lennart Borgman
2005-06-27 21:40                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-27  5:38     ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-06-27  7:24       ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-27 11:40         ` John S. Yates, Jr.
2005-06-27 13:26           ` Lennart Borgman
2005-06-27 18:41             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]               ` <42C044F3.60606@student.lu.se>
     [not found]                 ` <uzmtbeam9.fsf@gnu.org>
2005-06-27 21:06                   ` Lennart Borgman
2005-06-28 18:46               ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-06-28 18:54                 ` Lennart Borgman
2005-06-28  4:17             ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-06-28  6:39               ` David Kastrup
2005-06-28  5:28   ` Stefan Monnier
2005-06-28  7:17     ` Lennart Borgman
2005-06-28 10:05     ` John S. Yates, Jr.
2005-06-30 21:30       ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-06-30 22:15         ` Miles Bader
2005-07-01 22:45           ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-07-02  2:32             ` Miles Bader
2005-06-28 15:28     ` Drew Adams
2005-06-28 16:01       ` Lennart Borgman
2005-06-28 19:46     ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-28 21:36       ` Miles Bader
2005-06-28 22:00         ` David Kastrup
2005-06-30  7:40           ` Miles Bader
2005-06-29  3:39         ` Stefan Monnier
2005-06-29  4:45           ` Miles Bader
2005-06-29 18:51             ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-06-29 23:46               ` Miles Bader
2005-06-30  1:44           ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-06-30  5:38           ` David Kastrup
2005-06-29 20:43         ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-07-01  1:45     ` public

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