From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Customize buttons that change user's custom fileshouldaskforconfirmation Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 04:44:26 -0500 Message-ID: References: <00e301c509c1$9c761690$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <200502152320.j1FNKd310641@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200502172257.j1HMvJN10856@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200502181412.j1IECkj14736@raven.dms.auburn.edu> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1108807872 7562 80.91.229.2 (19 Feb 2005 10:11:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:11:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: abraham@dina.kvl.dk, lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, storm@cua.dk, snogglethorpe@gmail.com, drew.adams@oracle.com, miles@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 19 11:11:11 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D2RZp-0000Ou-Eh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:11:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D2RqK-0007lw-Ub for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 05:28:09 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D2RkP-0005f4-HN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 05:22:02 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D2Rk2-0005dl-T2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 05:21:54 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D2Rjz-0005d9-IC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 05:21:36 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1D2RA2-0006Ft-Lt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 04:44:26 -0500 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1D2RA2-0002u4-4l; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 04:44:26 -0500 Original-To: Luc Teirlinck In-reply-to: <200502181412.j1IECkj14736@raven.dms.auburn.edu> (message from Luc Teirlinck on Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:12:46 -0600 (CST)) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:33622 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:33622 But the problem is exactly that he may _not_ be satisfied with all the current "settings" (widget values). He may just have wanted to set them, or even more likely, just has been looking at them. The arguments you are making are arguments for complexity. That is the wrong approach for designing a user interface to help beginners. So please stop raising such arguments. We need to design a simple interface that is easy for beginners to understand, so that they are not afraid to use it. This means rejecting the goal that it should be able to do "whatever the user might want to do". We have to design it to do the most common things in the most straightforward way. So please stop making arguments about "but maybe the user only wants X". Other interfaces are not trying to handle an underlying customization system that is anywhere as complex and extensive as Emacs'. This is no excuse for making it more complex than it has to be, so please don't mention it. The average Custom buffer is a lot longer and contains a lot more options than the average customization "page" (or whatever they call it). If that is a real cause of difficulty, lets subdivide the groups more. The choices you have for an individual option can be a lot more complex. Complex types like `choice' force a concept of a `widget' value. What do you mean by a "widget" value?