From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Eliminating "changed in Emacs outside of Customize" Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 08:30:22 -0500 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1107265556 19401 80.91.229.2 (1 Feb 2005 13:45:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:45:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 01 14:45:56 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CvyKo-0000vR-O9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:44:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CvyXk-0007rL-4C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 08:58:12 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CvyW8-00072a-Tl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 08:56:33 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CvyW2-0006xT-04 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 08:56:26 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CvyW0-0006kx-MG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 08:56:24 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cvy9P-0005RM-Tt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 08:33:04 -0500 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1Cvy6o-0005ho-Dz; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 08:30:22 -0500 Original-To: Per Abrahamsen In-reply-to: (message from Per Abrahamsen on Mon, 31 Jan 2005 11:33:45 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:32698 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:32698 > Could you tell us the reason why you designed Custom to recognize a > state of "changed in Emacs outside of Customize"? If you .emacs, or some third party code you activate from ".emacs", contains "(setq foo 42)" and you change and save "foo" from customize, you changes to the variable through customize will be overwritten next time you start Emacs. Are you saying your concern was specifically for the case where foo is set outside Custom *from the init file*? What about the case where the user just evals M-: (setq foo 42) RET while running Emacs? Do you see a reason why this needs to be described as "changed outside Customize"? If instead it were described as "Set but not saved", exactly as if the user had used Customize to set it to 42, do you see any problem that would happen? In order for customize to work non-surprisingly, it has to be the only interface for changing the variable. Why do you think so? In particular, if changes outside Custom were treated as if they had happened within Custom, what problem do you envision? One way to implement this is to identify the "customized value" of a variable with its Lisp value. Another way is to copy the Lisp value to the "customized value" on various occasions, such as at the beginning of doing certain operations on the widget. Thanks for the explanation text. I will put it into cus-edit.el.