From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Permission to use portions of the recent GNU Emacs Manual Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 05:56:32 -0500 Message-ID: References: <014501c4e4eb$3af838d0$0300a8c0@neeeeeee2> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1103540724 12863 80.91.229.6 (20 Dec 2004 11:05:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:05:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dak@gnu.org, xemacs-beta@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, bob@rattlesnake.com, stephen@xemacs.org, andy@xemacs.org Original-X-From: xemacs-beta-bounces@xemacs.org Mon Dec 20 12:05:17 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org ([199.184.165.135] ident=ident-user) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CgLLp-00057S-00 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:05:17 +0100 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (ident-user@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBKB1QZW010260; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 06:01:26 -0500 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (ident-user@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBKB1PCe010253 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 06:01:25 -0500 Original-Received: (from xemacweb@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id iBKB1PjX010252 for xemacs-beta-mailman@xemacs.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 06:01:25 -0500 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (ident-user@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBKB1OEM010241 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 06:01:24 -0500 Original-Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id iBKB1OBK010240 for xemacweb@tux.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 06:01:24 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [199.232.76.164]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBKB1NUZ010235; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 06:01:24 -0500 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CgLDM-0001Am-Pf; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 05:56:32 -0500 Original-To: "Ben Wing" In-reply-to: <014501c4e4eb$3af838d0$0300a8c0@neeeeeee2> (ben@666.com) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-XEmacs-List: beta X-BeenThere: xemacs-beta@xemacs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: XEmacs Beta Testers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: xemacs-beta-bounces@xemacs.org Errors-To: xemacs-beta-bounces@xemacs.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta:17526 gmane.emacs.devel:31286 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:31286 Richard, please reconsider. You have a reputation of antipathy towards XEmacs. If you're at all interested in mending fences a little, this would be a very easy step -- simply declare that we are allowed to use the code under our license (which was your license up through 2000 or so). Otherwise you give the impression of actively hindering the XEmacs project. I did not choose this license with a view to its effects on you; it is the general FSF policy for manuals. However, the fact that it is inconvenient for XEmacs does not strike me as a disadvantage. After all, you have been uncooperative towards us for 10 years, and you don't see that as a disadvantage. We don't owe you anything, not even small favors. Despite my well-known and justified antipathy towards XEmacs, I offered to consider changing licenses on parts. However, the response was an ungreatful threat, so I now withdraw that offer. If I did even the slightest thing for XEmacs now, I might give the impression of being a pushover. I ask all Emacs developers not to respond any further to whatever they may say here about this.