From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thien-Thi Nguyen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Permission to use portions of the recent GNU Emacs Manual Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:34:37 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87llc49kn1.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20041212125027.024c6900@mail.comcast.net> Reply-To: ttn@glug.org NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1102941708 349 80.91.229.6 (13 Dec 2004 12:41:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:41:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, andy@xemacs.org, xemacs-beta@xemacs.org Original-X-From: xemacs-beta-bounces@xemacs.org Mon Dec 13 13:41:40 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org ([199.184.165.135] ident=ident-user) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CdpWF-0006pu-00 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:41:40 +0100 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (ident-user@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBDCZJsi017271; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:35:23 -0500 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (ident-user@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBDCZHI9017262 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:35:17 -0500 Original-Received: (from xemacweb@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id iBDCZH6G017261 for xemacs-beta-mailman@xemacs.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:35:17 -0500 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (ident-user@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBDCZGfj017251 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:35:16 -0500 Original-Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id iBDCZG8b017250 for xemacweb@tux.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:35:16 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.agora-net.com (mail.agora-net.com [207.245.121.137] (may be forged)) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBDCZGNZ017233; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:35:16 -0500 Original-Received: from ttn by mail.agora-net.com with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CdpPR-0001mX-Ap; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:34:37 -0500 Original-To: bob@rattlesnake.com In-reply-to: (bob@rattlesnake.com) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-XEmacs-List: beta X-BeenThere: xemacs-beta@xemacs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: XEmacs Beta Testers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: xemacs-beta-bounces@xemacs.org Errors-To: xemacs-beta-bounces@xemacs.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta:17441 gmane.emacs.devel:31066 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:31066 From: "Robert J. Chassell" Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 01:59:20 +0000 (UTC) To focus on Emacs when we are talking about licenses suggests to me that you are more concerned with the development of that product than with changing the political and business patterns of societies. you are falling victim to a false dichotomy. the xemacs programmers are certainly a society, one of the many involved in this thread. to what extent any society has desire for self- and not-self-change is a concept too vague to be useful, primarily because what is externally visible may not be what is internally held (and if you are external enough, even understanding what is visible is very difficult). by not recognizing this, you also demonstrate the lack of salesmanship you have been talking about, which is at least consistent. thi