From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Moving files from lisp/gnus/ to lisp/net/? Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:52:39 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1097934829 4114 80.91.229.6 (16 Oct 2004 13:53:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:53:49 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 16 15:53:43 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CIp0A-0006ja-00 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 15:53:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CIp7M-0007Dd-VZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:01:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CIp6l-0006yo-J9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:00:31 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CIp6j-0006xt-Os for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:00:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CIp6j-0006xo-MZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:00:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CIoz9-0006Po-Uv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:52:40 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CIoz9-00033N-Cc; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:52:39 -0400 Original-To: Simon Josefsson In-reply-to: (message from Simon Josefsson on Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:26:59 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:28475 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:28475 People seem to fear using some files in gnus/ because they think the files might end up loading all of Gnus. I believe moving some of the self contained files in Gnus elsewhere would be good. This would make it clear that they aren't an intrinsic part of Gnus. Not only would it make it clear for elisp programmers, it would make it clear for us working on Gnus. I.e., to make sure we don't use Gnus functions in some of the files. I just modified pop3.el to revert one such example. It would be bad if many standalone files ended up loading Gnus out of pure laziness. I agree completely. It makes a big difference for Emacs maintenance whether a file is part of Gnus or not. If it is part of Gnus, it is maintained by the Gnus developers, so they might expect to be able to change it without looking at how the rest of Emacs uses it. I propose to move the following files: lisp/gnus/: binhex.el dig.el hex-util.el rfc2104.el pgg-def.el pgg.el pgg-gpg.el pgg-parse.el pgg-pgp5.el pgg-pgp.el pop3.el sha1.el sieve.el sieve-manage.el sieve-mode.el starttls.el We need to consider them one by one, so please don't raise them as a big group. Please propose one file or a few related files at a time, and we will think of them. Right now let's consider only those that there is a specific reason to move right now. * What will these file's status in "upstream" Gnus be? Gnus tries to be compatible with older emacs versions, so it seems like you can't just remove them from the Gnus distribution, but for this "separation" to have any real effect for Gnus developers, it would seem that they shouldn't be kept in their current location. If the Gnus developers want to keep including some version of these files, such as for compatibility purposes, they can. But they should not install those files into the Emacs repository any more. And they should probably arrange that the separately-distributed Gnus won't use the Gnus versions of those files when running in an Emacs version that already has the facility built in.