From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Menu suggestion Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 19:35:47 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1082936504 1667 80.91.224.253 (25 Apr 2004 23:41:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:41:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dak@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 26 01:41:38 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BHtFi-00013f-00 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 01:41:38 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BHtFR-0004Jv-00 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 01:41:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BHtEX-0001LZ-PK for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 19:40:25 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BHtCd-0000PP-IF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 19:38:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BHtBs-00089M-37 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 19:38:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BHtBr-00088l-In for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 19:37:39 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.24) id 1BHtA3-0001FA-NX; Sun, 25 Apr 2004 19:35:47 -0400 Original-To: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) In-reply-to: (storm@cua.dk) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:22143 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:22143 If you hoover the cursor over that menu item, it says: Use C-z/C-x/C-c/C-v for undo/cut/copy/paste There is no need to make the menu item complete in describing the changes this mode makes. C-x/C-c/C-v cut and paste would be better for the menu item text. The rest of the info could be in a help string. A big advantage of this would be that the tutorial could just skip all about native navigation --a user who already uses C-x C-c etc before he starts learning emacs will also be using the cursor keys, pgdn pgup, etc. So there's no reason to tell him about C-f C-b etc, or C-v M-v etc. (and C-v doesn't work the emacs way anyway...). I disagree. We want users to be offered the chance to learn the efficient ways to do these things. Also, this proposal would require two versions of all the translated tutorials. That just seems like too much work. I know the keyboard purist elite is very fond of emacs' traditional bindings, but they do make emacs more difficult to learn than emacs+CUA. Why do you think the traditional Emacs bindings are harder to learn than these bindings?