From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: problem of define-minor-mode while bootstrapping Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 17:45:27 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200209191320.WAA03733@etlken.m17n.org> <200209191346.g8JDkdq07175@rum.cs.yale.edu> <200209200006.JAA04300@etlken.m17n.org> <200209201838.g8KIc8t13414@rum.cs.yale.edu> <20020921020041.GA1545@gnu.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1033077085 25044 127.0.0.1 (26 Sep 2002 21:51:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 21:51:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: miles@gnu.org, monnier+gnu/emacs@rum.cs.yale.edu, handa@m17n.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17ugXb-0006Vl-00 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 23:51:23 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17uhFW-0007FI-00 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 00:36:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17ugXk-0007nz-00; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 17:51:32 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17ugRt-0005t4-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 17:45:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17ugRr-0005ss-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 17:45:29 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17ugRr-0005sm-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 17:45:27 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.10) id 17ugRr-0005FC-00; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 17:45:27 -0400 Original-To: d.love@dl.ac.uk In-reply-to: (message from Dave Love on 25 Sep 2002 23:50:57 +0100) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:8188 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:8188 > > The reason for this little piece of code is so as to call (foo-mode 1) when > > people do (setq foo-mode t) in their .emacs and then load foo-mode.el. > > But people shouldn't use (setq foo-mode t), they should use (foo-mode 1) > > instead anyway. > > So I'd rather use that code less often rather than more often. > > CAn we just get rid of it? > > I'd rather not do that. > It would be an incompatible change, and I don't see > enough reason for one. The fact that you can't currently DTRT seems good enough. Would you please be more specific? I have no idea what that refers to. The start of this conversation was a week or more ago, and I don't remember it. What exactly is the RT that we can't D? I don't see a serious problem with such a change since I, for one, wasn't aware there was such code and the minor mode doc explicitly says that setting the variable doesn't take effect. Could you show me the specific documentation? Maybe it needs to be fixed. It's also meant to be a requirement that just loading a library doesn't change Emacs's state, particularly for the sake of Custom; I think that's documented, but if not, it should be. Could you explain more concretely what it is that you're thinking of as a change in Emacs's state? My memory is saying that this code was designed to avoid an unwanted change in Emacs's state.