From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Francesco Potorti` Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [CVS] f7, f8 bound.. Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:55:16 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <87lm6xiruh.fsf@computer.localdomain> <5xu1liwmu6.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> <200208261526.g7QFQX624783@rum.cs.yale.edu> <5xu1lgu1e4.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> <200208271621.g7RGLNm30516@rum.cs.yale.edu> <5xhehfe3aj.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> <874rdfaytt.fsf@pot.cnuce.cnr.it> <5xvg5sh06u.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1031316937 19770 127.0.0.1 (6 Sep 2002 12:55:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:55:37 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, deego@glue.umd.edu, monnier+gnu/emacs@rum.cs.yale.edu, miles@gnu.org, Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE, rms@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17nIe7-00058j-00 for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:55:35 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17nJEH-00083o-00 for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 15:32:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17nIfi-0000dQ-00; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 08:57:14 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17nIe4-0000Lb-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 08:55:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17nIe2-0000KI-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 08:55:31 -0400 Original-Received: from pot.cnuce.cnr.it ([146.48.83.182]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17nIe1-0000GU-00; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 08:55:29 -0400 Original-Received: from pot by pot.cnuce.cnr.it with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17nIdo-0003C7-00; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:55:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: <5xvg5sh06u.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> (no-spam@cua.dk) X-fingerprint: 4B2 6187 5C3 D6B1 2E31 7666 9DF 2DC9 BE21 6115 Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:7621 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:7621 RMS: > Do people think we should remove the F2 bindings? We could provide > commands on F2 and F3 that resemble simple text editors. Kim: I don't know what simple editors we need to look like, or whether any of the simple editors resembles each other. I doubt it. As an example, M$-Word (which I would image quite a few users are using -- like it or not) has the following bindings Word is not a simple editor, it is a very complex wysiwyg word processor. I was referring to simple text editors, like those I used in the old time of DOS systems on text consoles, and like many are still around. Doing a quick survey of the text editors available in Debian, I find that some use Emacs-like bindings, some (the simplest ones) use only single control-key commands, some use C-k prefixed commands. Of the others (X is X, T is text console): T fte: F1 help F2 save F3 open F9 compile F10 menu T hexedit: F1 save F2 save F3 load F7 copy F8 paste F9 mark F10 menu T jered: F1 comm F2 shell F3 quit F4 save F5 find F6 mark F10 remove T le: F1 help F2 save F3 load F5/6 mark F9 compile F10 menu T mped: F2 save F3 open F4 close F5 new T ne: F1 menu F2 next F3 prev F4 select F5/6 undo/redo F10 help T qe: F1 manu T sted: F1 help F9 quit F11 load F12 save T woody: F10 menu T zed: F1 help F2 save F3 load F5 zoom F10 menu T zile: F1 help F2 save F3 load F10 menu X Kedit: F1 help F3 find next X flimmer: F1 help F2 props F4 highlight X gedit: F3 open F6 find F7 replace X ghex: F3 open X gnotepad: F3 open X kate: F1 help F3 find next X scite: F1 help F2 n.bkmk F3 find next X the: F1 help F2 nextw F3 save Apparently, then, traditional textual editors use F2 and F3 for save and load quite consistently, while modern X-based editors use a different convention, maybe there are Gnome and Kedit standards for this. We already provide things like crisp-mode which binds a lot of keys in ways which resembles other editors. That's a reasonable approach. Yes. But it shouldn't be the default to try to mimic other (inferior :-) editors. Don't know. Maybe we could provide a series of mappings for the functions keys. If we find a mapping that can be thought to be reasonably standard for simple text editors, we could use that as the default, and make it possible to switch to other mappings.