From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Edward Welbourne Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: customize Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:17:14 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200207111201.g6BC1OM16938@aztec.santafe.edu> <15680.26449.937153.817907@localhost.localdomain> <200207271853.g6RIrdt10834@aztec.santafe.edu> Reply-To: eddy@opera.no NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1027941475 25651 127.0.0.1 (29 Jul 2002 11:17:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:17:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: jeff.dwork@amd.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 17Z8XC-0006fc-00 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:17:54 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17Z8oO-0001uf-00 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:35:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17Z8XZ-0006x7-00; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:18:17 -0400 Original-Received: from pat.opera.com ([193.69.113.22] helo=whorl.intern.opera.no) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17Z8Wa-0006r0-00; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:17:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eddy by whorl.intern.opera.no with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17Z8WY-0008Tw-00; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:17:14 +0200 Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <200207271853.g6RIrdt10834@aztec.santafe.edu> (message from Richard Stallman on Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:53:39 -0600 (MDT)) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:6136 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:6136 > I documented custom-face, but I don't see a reason to change the > default to use a different file. Jeff was discussing customisation of custom-file, not custom-face. But I'm guessing that's what you meant. Three reasons for setting custom-face to somewhere other than ~/.emacs (only arguably reasons against using ~/.emacs as default for custom-face): * Database reason: one file then contains only customize's actions, making it much easier to keep track of which pieces of one's config come from where. * Priority/ordering reason: customize adds things to the end of its file: this is sensible for it, but potentially bad for elisp which needs to be executed after customizations; using a separate file for customize lets my ~/.emacs load the customize part early, late or in between, at my option, rather than having it always be last. * Byte-compilation: putting it all in a separate .el file provides for the possibility of byte-compiling the customization elisp. Having customize write to ~/.emacs leads to its works being mixed up with the user's hand-coded elisp; it also ensures that customize's actions over-ride everything the user sets up in elisp. Two reasons for using ~/.emacs as the default: * Simplicity: ~/.emacs is being loaded anyway; if customize writes to any other file, ~/.emacs must load that file; users will be confused/upset if their customization efforts have no effect (because the file the customization was recorded in hasn't been loaded). * Convenience/consistency: using a byte-compiled file requires recompilation each time any customizations get added. Personally, I'm with Jeff on this ... but I suspect this is the natural bias of old hands; while newbies need convenience with simplicity, and can't be expected to work out what to do about problems. Having the customization system provide a clear and prominent mention of custom-file's role, on its front page, would probably be the wisest approach; newbies could safely ignore it and have their customizations work, while old hands would have the one clue we need to fix it up the way we prefer. Eddy.