From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: arthur miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.orgmode,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Sv: Modularizing Org as GSoC project (was: New Emacs features via Google Summer of Code (or other similar stipend schemes) (was: as for Calc and the math library)) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 02:45:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87v7zvay9a.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DU2PR02MB101099F300A125A197929B4EF968E2DU2PR02MB10109eu_" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6409"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" , "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" To: Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 21 04:46:35 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sgbMn-0001Wi-FI for geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.orgmode:162999 gmane.emacs.devel:322984 Archived-At: --_000_DU2PR02MB101099F300A125A197929B4EF968E2DU2PR02MB10109eu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>> ... >>>Are there any specific todo items there that you view as more suitable >>>for people with limited experience in Emacs codebase? >> >> I am not sure if this is something, I hope you don't mind me asking, but >> could a >> work to modularize Org, be an appropriate subject? > >Yes, it can be. > >RMS previously asked us to do exactly this: >https://orgmode.org/list/E1kIPh1-0001Lu-Rg@fencepost.gnu.org > >Also, see previous discussion on re-integrating org-capture into remember.= el: >https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/87bka7c2e0.fsf@localhost >Similar for org-protocol.el. > >> For example turn displaying pretty text (bold, italics etc), pretty link= s, >> tables, dates, and perhaps some other stuff into, from Org-mode, indepen= dent, >> minor modes that could be used in other parts of Emacs and more independ= ently >> of >> Org mode. I think both Org-mode and Hyperbole, and perhaps some other >> libraries >> (button.el, help-mode, info), could use some minor mode that works with >> links. For us users, it would mean less cruft loaded into Emacs, if thos= e big >> players could share some code. >> >> I haven't done much research on this, just something I had in my head fo= r a >> long >> time. > >I would like to hear in more details what you have in mind. As is, your >proposal appears to be for multiple projects. Or am I mistaken? > >For links in particular, Hyperbole already implements the described >minor mode, or what am I missing? > >For tables, dates, and other markup, it is not clear what you want to >achieve. To be honest I am not sure myself :) > Do you want Org markup to be displayed in non-Org buffers? Well, part of it. Or more to make some parts of org-markup configurable, an= d usable as minor modes so they can be easier used outside of org-mode. For example about links, there could be a mode "text-link-mode" or "pretty-links-mode" or something, that understands what a link description = is, and what a link itself is. The minor mode would have some mean to parse description and link parts, and when on it would do what org-toggle-link-di= splay does. For example org uses angle brackets for link desc and url, whereas markdown uses angle brackets and parenthesis. Thus link-mode could/should b= e enough customizable so that modes could be clients of this minor mode, as w= ell as for user to be able to setup a regex or set a function that recognizes s= ome custom syntax for descriptions and links. Also a minor mode can come with a= key map and some actions, for example to follow link, to insert a link etc. I t= hink of org-links, but a bit more generalized and usable without org-mode itself. Org-mode could use those under the hood. Similarly for italics, bolds, underlines, etc. Those could be slightly generalized and taken out into minor mode. Clients could setup their own start/end markers and use them to enrich the text on the display instead of perhaps defining own faces and regexes. I don't know how useful and desirab= le it might be in other modes, perhaps in comments in programming languages, or similar. Just a thought. org-timestamp interactiveity could be usable elsewhere than just in org mode. For example I can insert org-timestamp in any mode, but it does work= to use C-left/right to change the date. It could be refactored into small tiny minor mode timestamp-mode or something, that comes with tis mode map and en= able this interactive stuff. ascii tables or org tables started as its own mode but got consumed by org.= They are still usable outside of org mode. I can create table with org-table-cre= ate and I can align table with org-table-align, but by default I don't have thi= s functionality bound in some keymap if I am not in org-mode. Perhaps I am ju= st not familiar with it. But this could be a minor mode also. I guess org-capture is a candidate, and probably some others. By refactoring out those things, org-mode loose nothing, since everything i= s still available in Emacs, and everything could be still used in org-mode un= der the hoos, but it would be easier to use those things in other major modes. = It might also be easier to work with org-mode if it is less monolithic. I am sorry if it is too scatchy, and uninformed, it is just some thoughts I= had, but I was never really motivated to do those things myself. ________________________________ Fr=E5n: Ihor Radchenko Skickat: den 20 augusti 2024 19:40 Till: arthur miller Kopia: emacs-devel@gnu.org ; emacs-orgmode@gnu.org =C4mne: Modularizing Org as GSoC project (was: New Emacs features via Googl= e Summer of Code (or other similar stipend schemes) (was: as for Calc and t= he math library)) arthur miller writes: >> ... >>Are there any specific todo items there that you view as more suitable >>for people with limited experience in Emacs codebase? > > I am not sure if this is something, I hope you don't mind me asking, but = could a > work to modularize Org, be an appropriate subject? Yes, it can be. RMS previously asked us to do exactly this: https://orgmode.org/list/E1kIPh1-0001Lu-Rg@fencepost.gnu.org Also, see previous discussion on re-integrating org-capture into remember.e= l: https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/87bka7c2e0.fsf@localhost Similar for org-protocol.el. > For example turn displaying pretty text (bold, italics etc), pretty links= , > tables, dates, and perhaps some other stuff into, from Org-mode, independ= ent, > minor modes that could be used in other parts of Emacs and more independe= ntly of > Org mode. I think both Org-mode and Hyperbole, and perhaps some other lib= raries > (button.el, help-mode, info), could use some minor mode that works with > links. For us users, it would mean less cruft loaded into Emacs, if those= big > players could share some code. > > I haven't done much research on this, just something I had in my head for= a long > time. I would like to hear in more details what you have in mind. As is, your proposal appears to be for multiple projects. Or am I mistaken? For links in particular, Hyperbole already implements the described minor mode, or what am I missing? For tables, dates, and other markup, it is not clear what you want to achieve. Do you want Org markup to be displayed in non-Org buffers? -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at --_000_DU2PR02MB101099F300A125A197929B4EF968E2DU2PR02MB10109eu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>> ...
>>>Are there any specific todo items there that you view as more s= uitable
>>>for people with limited experience in Emacs codebase?
>>
>> I am not sure if this is something, I hope you don't mind me askin= g, but
>> could a
>> work to modularize Org, be an appropriate subject?
>
>Yes, it can be.
>
>RMS previously asked us to do exactly this:
>https://orgmode.org/list/E1kIPh1-0001Lu-Rg@fencepost.gnu.org
>
>Also, see previous discussion on re-integrating org-capture into rememb= er.el:
>https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/87bka7c2e0.fsf@localhost
>Similar for org-protocol.el.
>
>> For example turn displaying pretty text (bold, italics etc), prett= y links,
>> tables, dates, and perhaps some other stuff into, from Org-mode, i= ndependent,
>> minor modes that could be used in other parts of Emacs and more in= dependently
>> of
>> Org mode. I think both Org-mode and Hyperbole, and perhaps some ot= her
>> libraries
>> (button.el, help-mode, info), could use some minor mode that works= with
>> links. For us users, it would mean less cruft loaded into Emacs, i= f those big
>> players could share some code.
>>
>> I haven't done much research on this, just something I had in my h= ead for a
>> long
>> time.
>
>I would like to hear in more details what you have in mind. As is, your=
>proposal appears to be for multiple projects. Or am I mistaken?
>
>For links in particular, Hyperbole already implements the described
>minor mode, or what am I missing?
>
>For tables, dates, and other markup, it is not clear what you want to
>achieve.

To be honest I am not sure myself :)

>         Do you want Org markup to be displayed in = non-Org buffers?

Well, part of it. Or more to make some parts of org-markup configurable, an= d
usable as minor modes so they can be easier used outside of org-mode.

For example about links, there could be a mode "text-link-mode" o= r
"pretty-links-mode" or something, that understands what a link de= scription is,
and what a link itself is. The minor mode would have some mean to parse
description and link parts, and when on it would do what org-toggle-link-di= splay
does. For example org uses angle brackets for link desc and url, whereas
markdown uses angle brackets and parenthesis. Thus link-mode could/should b= e
enough customizable so that modes could be clients of this minor mode, as w= ell
as for user to be able to setup a regex or set a function that recognizes s= ome
custom syntax for descriptions and links. Also a minor mode can come with a= key
map and some actions, for example to follow link, to insert a link etc. I t= hink
of org-links, but a bit more generalized and usable without org-mode
itself. Org-mode could use those under the hood.

Similarly for italics, bolds, underlines, etc. Those could be slightly
generalized and taken out into minor mode. Clients could setup their own
start/end markers and use them to enrich the text on the display instead of=
perhaps defining own faces and regexes. I don't know how useful and desirab= le it
might be in other modes, perhaps in comments in programming languages, or
similar. Just a thought.

org-timestamp interactiveity could be usable elsewhere than just in org
mode. For example I can insert  org-timestamp in any mode, but it does= work to
use C-left/right to change the date. It could be refactored into small tiny=
minor mode timestamp-mode or something, that comes with tis mode map and en= able
this interactive stuff.

ascii tables or org tables started as its own mode but got consumed by org.= They
are still usable outside of org mode. I can create table with org-table-cre= ate
and I can align table with org-table-align, but by default I don't have thi= s
functionality bound in some keymap if I am not in org-mode. Perhaps I am ju= st
not familiar with it. But this could be a minor mode also.

I guess org-capture is a candidate, and probably some others.

By refactoring out those things, org-mode loose nothing, since everything i= s
still available in Emacs, and everything could be still used in org-mode un= der
the hoos, but it would be easier to use those things in other major modes. = It
might also be easier to work with org-mode if it is less monolithic.

I am sorry if it is too scatchy, and uninformed, it is just some thoughts I= had,
but I was never really motivated to do those things myself.
Fr=E5n: Ihor Radchenko <= yantar92@posteo.net>
Skickat: den 20 augusti 2024 19:40
Till: arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com>
Kopia: emacs-devel@gnu.org <emacs-devel@gnu.org>; emacs-orgmod= e@gnu.org <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
=C4mne: Modularizing Org as GSoC project (was: New Emacs features vi= a Google Summer of Code (or other similar stipend schemes) (was: as for Cal= c and the math library))
 
arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com> write= s:

>> ...
>>Are there any specific todo items there that you view as more suita= ble
>>for people with limited experience in Emacs codebase?
>
> I am not sure if this is something, I hope you don't mind me asking, b= ut could a
> work to modularize Org, be an appropriate subject?

Yes, it can be.

RMS previously asked us to do exactly this:
ht= tps://orgmode.org/list/E1kIPh1-0001Lu-Rg@fencepost.gnu.org

Also, see previous discussion on re-integrating org-capture into remember.e= l:
https:/= /yhetil.org/emacs-devel/87bka7c2e0.fsf@localhost
Similar for org-protocol.el.

> For example turn displaying pretty text (bold, italics etc), pretty li= nks,
> tables, dates, and perhaps some other stuff into, from Org-mode, indep= endent,
> minor modes that could be used in other parts of Emacs and more indepe= ndently of
> Org mode. I think both Org-mode and Hyperbole, and perhaps some other = libraries
> (button.el, help-mode, info), could use some minor mode that works wit= h
> links. For us users, it would mean less cruft loaded into Emacs, if th= ose big
> players could share some code.
>
> I haven't done much research on this, just something I had in my head = for a long
> time.

I would like to hear in more details what you have in mind. As is, your
proposal appears to be for multiple projects. Or am I mistaken?

For links in particular, Hyperbole already implements the described
minor mode, or what am I missing?

For tables, dates, and other markup, it is not clear what you want to
achieve. Do you want Org markup to be displayed in non-Org buffers?

--
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://o= rgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <h= ttps://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https:= //liberapay.com/yantar92>
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