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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322916 Archived-At: --_000_DU2PR02MB1010992F2EB8DF10B5F87F51D968C2DU2PR02MB10109eu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joel Reicher writes: > Stefan Kangas writes: > >> Christopher Dimech writes: >> >>> Incorporating a mathematical library into Emacs, based on Calc, is not = just >>> feasible but highly beneficial. >> >> I think we all agree that a general purpose mathematical library would b= e >> interesting. The point is that the specifics of how it is implemented >> matters. > > "Interesting" is different to "useful", and I think this is why the > implementation is unclear, because the requirements of a library can only= be > made clear by a multiplicity of consumers. Exactly the reason I suggested FFI in the very first place. "Mathematics" a= re a broad term. Someone will want a linear algebra library, someone will want symbolic manipulations, statistics, analysis, theorem provers and so on. Th= ere are lots of mathematical libraries that could be useful to Emacs users in different areas, since Emacs is used in some many different places by diffe= rent people. > What packages, other than Calc, would make use of such a library? (That's= not > rhetorical; I don't pretend to have an overview of all such packages.) > >> If you think basing it on Calc is the best way forward, then I invite yo= u to >> get started. > > It needs to be based on potential consumers. If Calc is the only consumer= , then > a library does not make sense yet. But that's not to say an FFI wouldn't = improve > Calc's implementation. If that's the issue, then it's a discussion that d= iffers > from one about library. As an alternative, it would be interesing to have everything in Lisp, no do= ubt about that one. Imagine if Macsyma was available for Elisp. Maxima is the G= PL alternative, but it is all very uncommon CommonLisp, unfortunately. Perhaps Calc could be brought to those levels, but I believe the amount of = the work and doubling on the implementation of something that already exists in= form of loadable C libraries, would not be trivial. ________________________________ Fr=E5n: Joel Reicher Skickat: den 17 augusti 2024 16:30 Till: Stefan Kangas Kopia: Christopher Dimech ; Eli Zaretskii ; a= corallo@gnu.org ; suhailsingh247@gmail.com ; gerd.moellmann@gmail.com ; nicolas@= n16f.net ; arthur.miller@live.com ; emacs-devel@gnu.org =C4mne: Re: Emacs ffi Stefan Kangas writes: > Christopher Dimech writes: > >> Incorporating a mathematical library into Emacs, based on Calc, >> is not just feasible but highly beneficial. > > I think we all agree that a general purpose mathematical library > would be interesting. The point is that the specifics of how it > is implemented matters. "Interesting" is different to "useful", and I think this is why the implementation is unclear, because the requirements of a library can only be made clear by a multiplicity of consumers. What packages, other than Calc, would make use of such a library? (That's not rhetorical; I don't pretend to have an overview of all such packages.) > If you think basing it on Calc is the best way forward, then I > invite you to get started. It needs to be based on potential consumers. If Calc is the only consumer, then a library does not make sense yet. But that's not to say an FFI wouldn't improve Calc's implementation. If that's the issue, then it's a discussion that differs from one about library. Regards, - Joel --_000_DU2PR02MB1010992F2EB8DF10B5F87F51D968C2DU2PR02MB10109eu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Joel Reicher <joel.reicher@gmail.com> writes:

> Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> writes:
>>
>>> Incorporating a mathematical library into Emacs, based on Calc= , is not just
>>> feasible but highly beneficial.
>>
>> I think we all agree that a general purpose mathematical library w= ould be
>> interesting.  The point is that the specifics of how it is im= plemented
>> matters.
>
> "Interesting" is different to "useful", and I thin= k this is why the
> implementation is unclear, because the requirements of a library can o= nly be
> made clear by a multiplicity of consumers.

Exactly the reason I suggested FFI in the very first place. "Mathemati= cs" are a
broad term. Someone will want a linear algebra library, someone will want
symbolic manipulations, statistics, analysis, theorem provers and so on. Th= ere
are lots of mathematical libraries that could be useful to Emacs users in
different areas, since Emacs is used in some many different places by diffe= rent
people.

> What packages, other than Calc, would make use of such a library? (Tha= t's not
> rhetorical; I don't pretend to have an overview of all such packages.)=
>
>> If you think basing it on Calc is the best way forward, then I inv= ite you to
>> get started.
>
> It needs to be based on potential consumers. If Calc is the only consu= mer, then
> a library does not make sense yet. But that's not to say an FFI wouldn= 't improve
> Calc's implementation. If that's the issue, then it's a discussion tha= t differs
> from one about library.

As an alternative, it would be interesing to have everything in Lisp, no do= ubt
about that one. Imagine if Macsyma was available for Elisp. Maxima is the G= PL
alternative, but it is all very uncommon CommonLisp, unfortunately.

Perhaps Calc could be brought to those levels, but I believe the amount of = the
work and doubling on the implementation of something that already exists in= form
of loadable C libraries, would not be trivial.
Fr=E5n: Joel Reicher <jo= el.reicher@gmail.com>
Skickat: den 17 augusti 2024 16:30
Till: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
Kopia: Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com>; Eli Zaretskii <= eliz@gnu.org>; acorallo@gnu.org <acorallo@gnu.org>; suhailsingh247= @gmail.com <suhailsingh247@gmail.com>; gerd.moellmann@gmail.com <g= erd.moellmann@gmail.com>; nicolas@n16f.net <nicolas@n16f.net>; arthur.miller@live.com <arthur.miller@live.com>; emacs-devel@gnu.org= <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
=C4mne: Re: Emacs ffi
 
Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> write= s:

> Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com> writes:
>
>> Incorporating a mathematical library into Emacs, based on Calc, >> is not just feasible but highly beneficial.
>
> I think we all agree that a general purpose mathematical library
> would be interesting.  The point is that the specifics of how it =
> is implemented matters.

"Interesting" is different to "useful", and I think thi= s is why
the implementation is unclear, because the requirements of a
library can only be made clear by a multiplicity of consumers.

What packages, other than Calc, would make use of such a library?
(That's not rhetorical; I don't pretend to have an overview of all
such packages.)

> If you think basing it on Calc is the best way forward, then I
> invite you to get started.

It needs to be based on potential consumers. If Calc is the only
consumer, then a library does not make sense yet.

But that's not to say an FFI wouldn't improve Calc's
implementation. If that's the issue, then it's a discussion that
differs from one about library.

Regards,

        - Joel
--_000_DU2PR02MB1010992F2EB8DF10B5F87F51D968C2DU2PR02MB10109eu_--