From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Info: No GIL Multithreading strat for Python Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 20:01:06 +0100 Message-ID: References: <86bk7vnwbi.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18775"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 03 20:33:15 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rgraE-0004aF-DK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2024 20:33:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rgrZj-0006DB-VZ; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR04-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 14:32:42 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:316771 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Arthur Miller >> Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2024 12:50:18 +0100 >>=20 >>=20 >> I just stumbled over an intersting presentation of a multithreading expe= riment >> for a "no-gil" Python, with relatively well-explained strategy they use, >> problems they face and what it offers: >>=20 >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DrImAmkS2ySE&t=3D2s >>=20 >> The presentation is about ~ =C2=BD year old, I have no idea what is the = status and >> how well it works. But some of what they discuss is perhaps of the inter= est for >> emacs devs. > > Python is a programming language, where the programmers are > responsible for what the parallel programs they write do and how do > they cope with the various dangers of concurrency. If the program > crashes, the programmer has only him/herself to blame. I am not sure what you are trying to say? Python is not Elisp; Elisp is not Python, and Python interpretter is not Emacs, and Emacs is not Python interpretter. I think it is self-evident. Sure, nobody said they are the sa= me? Anyway; Python Intepretter and Emacs are not the same, but there are some important similarities and similar problems. What they are talking there mi= ght be an interesting multithreading strategy for Emacs as well. They have simi= lar problem with the shared state. > By contrast, Emacs is a program that lets users process text in > various scenarios, where users expect Emacs to react gracefully to > errors. Emacs the program has a very large global state that doesn't > work well with any concurrency, and which any programmer will keep as Yes, we all know that, and that is what that presentation was about; that i= s why I have hinted abou it. > far from as possible. If Emacs crashes, users blame Emacs, not the > Lisp they wrote. Mnjah; I think you are little bit unjust to your users here :). I think tha= t people do understand when they write bad code and crash Emacs. > So there's a large difference, and therefore not every technique used Naturally, there is a difference between a text editor and an interpretter;= but Emacs happens to be both at the same time; and the interpretter part is rat= her similar to Python. > by a programming language can be used by Emacs to achieve similar > goals. Of course; and nobody said that you pick any random strat for some programm= ing language implementation and apply to Emacs. However, what they are trying to solve there, is potentially very similar t= o what we have in Emacs too. Anyway, just information sharing.