From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Help menu (was: Re: describe-bindings: ^L, bad order, naming) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:15:54 -0800 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1132079051 25952 80.91.229.2 (15 Nov 2005 18:24:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:24:11 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 15 19:24:01 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ec5Mo-0000Gs-IN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 19:17:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ec5Mn-0003yO-ED for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:17:13 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ec5Lg-0003Yk-2y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:16:04 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ec5Lf-0003YG-7V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:16:03 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ec5Le-0003Y6-TT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:16:02 -0500 Original-Received: from [148.87.122.30] (helo=rgminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1Ec5Le-0005Gg-O9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:16:03 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.49]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id jAFIG0f5013837 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:16:00 -0700 Original-Received: from rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id jAFIG08g026561 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:16:00 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dradams-lap.us.oracle.com [130.35.177.126]) by rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with SMTP id jAFIFxAb026554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:15:59 -0700 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:46034 Archived-At: The "Describe" sub-menu could also drop the myriad of "Describe ..." Describe --> Describe Buffer Modes... Describe Key or Mouse Operation ... Describe ... Describe ... List Key Bindings --- Describe ... Describe ... Show all of Mule Stats wouldn't it be easier for users to keep an oversight if we had something like Describe --> Buffer Modes Key or Mouse Operation ... Key Bindings (Keyboard Shortcuts) FWIW, I've long done this in my library `help+.el' (which I haven't had time to port to a version newer than Emacs 20). Describe -> This... (C-h RET) Buffer Modes (C-h m) Key... (C-h k) Function... (C-h f) Variable... (C-h v) All Key Bindings (C-h b) Major Mode Syntax (C-h s) Apropos Commands... (C-h a) Apropos Variables... The last two items should really be called "Commands..." and "Variables...", but I just reuse the existing menu-items here (out of laziness). (There is also an "Apropos" submenu of "Help".) The first item, "This...", lets you type a key sequence or click something (e.g. mode-line, minibuffer, Emacs-related name in a buffer, menu item), and it gives you information on that object. The info is that provided by `describe-*', plus apropos + Info doc, if appropriate. In the main Help menu, I don't really understand why it is structured the way it is. Maybe I don't have to, fair enough. But one may wonder why the Emacs Tutorial is at the top, but the "Read the Emacs manual" is in the bottom half. If it is "Tutorial", why is it not "Emacs manual" instead of "Read the Emacs Manual"? "Find Emacs packages' sounds like "find extra packages", but one is a function that lists "Included packages", the other one is a text explaining something. FWIW - I have a Help-menu submenu "Learn More" that has submenus for "Emacs", "Emacs Lisp", and additional items "Last Accessed Manual (`Info')", "All Manuals (Info)", and "Unix Man Page...". Many of the top-level Help-menu items are moved to the "Learn More" submenu (which is, itself, structured). That is, it gives you high-level entries to Info, but it also gives you separate access to Emacs stuff and Emacs-Lisp stuff. In the case of Emacs 22+ (23?), we might consider something like that, combining some top-level Help items with some of the stuff from submenus "Search Documentation" and "More Manuals" in a hierarchical "Learn More" submenu. The basic idea would be to group informational stuff together (stuff that goes beyond `describe-*'). My (Emacs 20) "Learn More > Emacs" submenu looks like this: Tutorial (C-h t) Manual (`Info') Find Command in Manual (C-h C-f) Find Key in Manual (C-h C-k) ---------------- Change History (News) (C-h n) FAQ (C-h F) The "Learn More > Emacs Lisp" submenu, for instance, looks like this: Intro Manual (`Info') ---------------- Locate Library... (C-h C-l) Locate Libraries by Keyword (C-h p) Change History (C-h n) The available menu items are those of Emacs 20 - they are not up-to-date for 22.