From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Start value in minibuffer Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:35:00 -0800 Message-ID: References: <87r79kxd3k.fsf@jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1131935780 14635 80.91.229.2 (14 Nov 2005 02:36:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 02:36:20 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 14 03:36:19 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EbUBy-00010R-P4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 14 Nov 2005 03:35:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EbUBx-0006E6-VS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:35:33 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EbUBg-0006E1-WD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:35:17 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EbUBf-0006Dp-Aa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:35:16 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EbUBf-0006Dl-7S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:35:15 -0500 Original-Received: from [148.87.122.30] (helo=rgminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1EbUBf-0008Po-25 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:35:15 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.50]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id jAE2ZCqA019872 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:35:12 -0700 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id jAE2ZCmA019208 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:35:12 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-whq-csvpn-gw3-141-144-81-128.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.81.128]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with SMTP id jAE2ZB85019194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:35:11 -0700 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <87r79kxd3k.fsf@jurta.org> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:45931 Archived-At: Another thing about preselecting an initial value in the minibuffer - Although I provide that in my library as an option, I turn it off by default. This is because I find that much of the time I want to edit that value only slightly. If the entire value is preselected, then you must first explicitly do something to deactivate the region. Otherwise (in PC-selection mode or delete-selection mode), the entire value is deleted (e.g. replaced) when you edit it. For my own use, I prefer to leave the preselection option off, but I have a handy key binding to empty the minibuffer (because I also use the default value as an initial value). I think a user's preference wrt treatment of initial minibuffer input has a lot to do with whether or not most of the default or initial values are useful with slight modification. If so, then it makes sense (to me) to use an initial value, without preselection. If not, then leaving the default value to be pulled in on demand makes sense, as does using an initial value with preselection. Different users will prefer different behaviors. Each approach has something to be recommended. And, in the case where each approach is not optimal, it still lets you get what you need with at most one keystroke: 1. `M-n' to pull in the default, in straight Emacs - because it's not there to begin with. 2. `C-SPC' to deselect a preselected init value in PC-selection mode or delete-selection mode - because you want to edit it slightly. 3. some keystroke (e.g. M-S-backspace) to erase the minibuffer (in the mode I use: init value without preselection) - when I don't want the value at all. That is: #1 makes you go through an extra step to get the default value. #2 makes you go through an extra step to deactivate the selection. #3 makes you go through an extra step to get rid of the value. #1 and #2 are optimal when you don't want to edit the default value (just take it or leave it). #3 is optimal when you do want to edit it.