From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Emacs FAQ for Emacs 22.1 Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:31:10 -0800 Message-ID: References: <85y82nkf4f.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1134597190 19810 80.91.229.2 (14 Dec 2005 21:53:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 21:53:10 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 14 22:53:09 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EmeVu-0003g6-8N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:50:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EmeWW-0000gR-0l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:50:56 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EmbPx-0005TL-5G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:31:57 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EmbPu-0005Rh-NC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:31:56 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EmbPt-0005QP-PV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:31:54 -0500 Original-Received: from [148.87.122.30] (helo=rgminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1EmbS0-0001tj-Hc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:34:04 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.49]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id jBEIVBQ0017186 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:31:12 -0700 Original-Received: from rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id jBEIVBH5002189 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:31:11 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dradams-lap.us.oracle.com [130.35.177.126]) by rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with SMTP id jBEIVAWu002173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:31:11 -0700 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <85y82nkf4f.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:47719 Archived-At: > I am not sure. Perhaps either way is ok, or it may depend > on the context. While it depends in some manner on the context (the latter alternative is certainly not helpful when talking about Lisp data structures and programming practices), I think that with regard to .emacs forms, we should generally prefer advertising Custom. It saves us from dealing with trouble from people who have in good faith used the wrong set-form on some variable (when does one need to use setq-default?), and who have, because of a lack of acquaintance with Lisp data structures, used the wrong or illegal sexp on the right hand side of stuff. People who use setq should be comfortable with reading and interpreting the documentation of variables. So I think that in the Emacs manual, we should generally focus on using customize. There is nothing wrong with a chapter "how to achieve things with Lisp in your .emacs by hand" or so (cars come with service manuals, too), but for the general practice, I'd strongly suggest we recommend using the knobs and dials provided for the user where available instead of recommending fiddling with the engine yourself. I generally agree with you here (focus on customize), except for relegating all .emacs stuff to a separate section of the manual. It would be more helpful, in general, to describe both methods together, for each individual case (depending on the context). The customize method should of course be emphasized and should be described first, but when the correponding Lisp code for .emacs is _simple_ it should be presented too. IOW, I agree with Romain about this. Trying to do everything .emacs-related in a separate section of the manual would be difficult and the result would be less useful, IMO. That doesn't mean that we couldn't also have a section on .emacs practices (e.g. tips); it just means that we shouldn't try to describe all the user-option Lisp stuff in a .emacs section. Of course, as you said, it all depends on the context.