From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Emacs unconditionally loads tramp.el Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:33:20 -0700 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1146353632 9796 80.91.229.2 (29 Apr 2006 23:33:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:33:52 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 30 01:33:51 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZywf-0004dH-SB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 01:33:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZywf-00076U-9G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:33:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FZywQ-000764-NV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:33:34 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FZywO-00075M-Qw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:33:34 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FZywO-00075J-Je for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:33:32 -0400 Original-Received: from [148.87.113.118] (helo=rgminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.52) id 1FZyzr-0007iV-9N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:37:07 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.50]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id k3TNXUjT014462 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 17:33:30 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw2-141-144-73-17.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.73.17]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with SMTP id k3TNXSnY028090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 17:33:29 -0600 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:53625 Archived-At: > The thing I find annoying is I've never been able to get it > to work on MS Windows There are "plink" methods for working with PuTTY's command-line terminal. I think Cygwin's ssh port expects to be run from an interactive Cygwin bash shell, so doesn't work well under Emacs. Yeah, I know. I think I tried plink and putty, and I will likely try them again some rainy day. Y'know, I don't remember ever doing anything special to get ange-ftp to work. IIRC, I picked up vanilla Emacs and immediately accessed remote files. Maybe I'm forgetting something, but it can't have been too difficult. We're always talking about making things easier for newbies to use Emacs. Well, if we expect Windows users to pick Emacs up and use it out of the box, and if we want them to use Emacs to access remote files, and if tramp is the default way to do that now, then I suspect we're going to be disappointed in our expectations. Many Windows users will never experience using Emacs to access remote files - that's my guess. And that's too bad - this Emacs feature is much more important than most of the minutia we spend time discussing in our attempts to make things friendlier for Emacs newbies (menus, toolbars, fringe,...). Here's another consideration for our globalized world: The number of people who use MS Windows only for personal desktop stuff (mail, browser, Word,...), and who access remote (who knows where? Texas? Bangalore? Ireland?) GNU/Linux farm boxes for development or other stuff, is growing fast. Nearly all of the developers at my (large) company work that way in one way or another - likewise for many non-developers. Some people work directly on remote G/L boxes via gateways like Tarantella and VNC, but others prefer to work locally on Windows and access remote G/L boxes via Emacs (ange-ftp). Some people might bother to go through the hassle of setting up tramp to work correctly, but others will give up, I suspect. Non-developers? Forget it.... Sorry for the rant. I just hate to see good things that work well stop working in the name of progress. On n'arrete pas le progres...