From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: generate 3) S-mouse-2: follow link in new window Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:19:59 -0700 Message-ID: References: <85fy0ybfcd.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1191118947 28635 80.91.229.12 (30 Sep 2007 02:22:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 02:22:27 +0000 (UTC) To: Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 30 04:22:22 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IboRp-00076Q-RD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 30 Sep 2007 04:22:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IboRm-0003Pz-2R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 22:22:18 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IboQu-00033c-I0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 22:21:24 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IboQt-00032Y-0K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 22:21:24 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IboQs-00032T-OL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 22:21:22 -0400 Original-Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IboQs-0006si-Dg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 22:21:22 -0400 Original-Received: from agmgw1.us.oracle.com (agmgw1.us.oracle.com [152.68.180.212]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l8U2LKud019988 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 21:21:20 -0500 Original-Received: from acsmt351.oracle.com (acsmt351.oracle.com [141.146.40.151]) by agmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.0/Switch-3.2.0) with ESMTP id l8U2Kaxe021127 for ; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 20:21:20 -0600 Original-Received: from dhcp-amer-whq-csvpn-gw3-141-144-80-240.vpn.oracle.com by acsmt351.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3256093901191118781; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:19:41 -0700 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 In-Reply-To: <85fy0ybfcd.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80038 Archived-At: > Because Emacs is configured right from the start not to work, It sure is. That's why I proposed something that would make it work. ;-) > but rather force the user to configure things > and make permanent decisions ... > permanently reconfigure the user's Emacs, > taking his choice from him in future. ... > casting this decision in stone [from your preceding mail] Permanent decisions? Permanently reconfigure? Nothing permanent about it. Stop your scare tactics, please. By your same logic, such a "permanent decision" is made now by you for the user - before s?he even starts up. It is not my proposal that reduces user awareness, choices, and the ability to control things - on the contrary. It will let users know: (1) that the behavior can be changed and (2) which option to change. Currently, they haven't got a clue. > Do you ignore negative input on purpose? I don't shy away from logical argument. Stefan, for instance, offered a correction regarding the behavior with emacs -Q. Other arguments might convince me that I'm completely wrong. It's even happened that you, David, have presented an argument or two that was convincing and made me change my mind. And I have not hesitated to show my support when I agree with you on some issue. I don't particularly care about you one way or the other, personally; it's the ideas that interest me, yours or anyone else's. I do care about you, however, in that I sincerely appreciate your service to Emacs and the Emacs community. Although I don't avoid negative argument, I do try to ignore your "permanently configured" knee-jerk slurs and vitriol. Alas, I don't always succeed. I try not to take your nastiness personally; it is reassuring to see you act similarly with others. ;-) Anyway, if I don't reply to your negative input, it's likely that that is the reason - I perceive too much heat, not enough light. Technical arguments welcome. Save the bullying for the playground.