From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Representation of the Emacs userbase on emacs-devel Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2021 16:48:05 +0200 Message-ID: References: <9471c28f-8eae-b555-ee86-9fffd6229937@yandex.ru> <87r1e690n8.fsf_-_@posteo.net> <9d5a2f83-d564-22e1-0cbd-df760044528f@yandex.ru> <837dfyyxyl.fsf@gnu.org> <8b4cf399-d1ca-8669-2a78-06813100b987@yandex.ru> <29c12300-db02-2770-e3f6-593998ea98fc@yandex.ru> <874kaxaj59.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26791"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Yuan Fu , Daniel Fleischer , Richard Stallman , Stefan Kangas , Emacs developers , Stefan Monnier , Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , John Yates To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 06 16:50:13 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mNFwp-0006it-OO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR04-DB3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:274130 Archived-At: Philip Kaludercic writes: > Arthur Miller writes: > >> Dmitry Gutov writes: >> >>> On 06.09.2021 08:04, Arthur Miller wrote: >>> >>>>>> Different or alternative as Tim proposed goes for anything:). >>>>> >>>>> But it's not "Different", it's rather "Familiar", as far as new users are >>>>> concerned. >>>> That is a different meaning to "different" indeed :). You are interpretting >>>> "different" as not-familiar or unkown, why I was thinking of "different" as of >>>> just somethin else. >>> >>> I'm just looking at the profiles as something for the new users. So if we're >>> picking names, tailoring them to the news user seems advantageous. >>> >>>> Maybe it is best just to smash together something and present it rather than >>>> trying people to agree to what is to be done? Like vim-people did with evil? >>> >>> Sure. Please don't let me stop anyone from experimenting and creating whatever >>> number of different profiles. >>> >>> It's better we start this process, rather than get bogged down here arguing >>> about particulars. >>> >>>> A diffent profile could be just a bunch of settings in a file. Why not just take >>>> a so called contermporary setup and put it in a init file, and add a customize >>>> variable to let people choose it? Could that work? >>> >>> I was thinking themes can be a good vehicle because someone can both enable and >>> disable a theme (if they find it doesn't suit their preference) without >>> restarting Emacs. >> >> That is true, but same can be done with a toggle button in customize? >> I remember when Stefan M. proposed to use themes. Themes are just lisp, >> so they can contain any lisp code, but how will it work with visual themes? There >> can be only one theme loaded at time, right? > > No, you can load more than one "theme" at a time, it just usually > doesn't make any sense for visual themes. But I agree, it might be > confusing. There was some talk about "profiles", but I am not sure if > the idea is to reuse the theme system or create something new. From what > I have been experimenting with antinews themes (ie. revert all changes > since Emacs XY), it requires a minor mode to be activated anyway, so it > might also make sense to just provide a minor mode instead of a theme. Ah ok. I have never tried to use several themes at once :). So as I understand, themes are proposed because they revert stuff automatically to the state as before? If you ask me, I don't care, a minor mode, a theme, or just a file with a bunch of setq:s. I can write a macro to stash away an old value and setq new value, so it is easy to revert everything back. Whatever works. >>> But, again, let us not have this preconception stop anyone from experimenting. >> >> Indeed. >> >> By the way, how much work would it be to switch C-x and M-x prefixes to C-space and >> M-space respectively. That way someone could rebind keys to resemble more of >> "modern" key usage (C-o, C-x, C-v etc ). C-z would need rework in terminal. But >> generally, if a prefix can be remaped automatically, it would be an easy thing to >> start with? > > I think directly switching might be difficult, because a lot of people > hard-code C-x into keymaps, even without using kbd. But it's a prefix. Can input methods provide for that? I don't know myself if suggested C-space M-space is good, but something. I mean nobody want's to manually rework entire Emacs shortcuts, right? :).