From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New start up splash screen annoyance... Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:37:11 +0100 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1190749061 12924 80.91.229.12 (25 Sep 2007 19:37:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:37:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 25 21:37:34 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IaGDp-0007NQ-Fa for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:37:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IaGDm-0003MU-E0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:37:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IaGDi-0003Lm-NL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:37:22 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IaGDh-0003Kl-8V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:37:22 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IaGDh-0003Ki-2e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:37:21 -0400 Original-Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.191]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IaGDg-0004OE-JV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:37:20 -0400 Original-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id f5so1603656nfh for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 12:37:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-priority:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; bh=0GVFTKNdV+dJVcpGFyKKheRPwW/yMgNdLl2pQd+yoBA=; b=N8c2x+FlxXpMlzn3yQsFLZNqcT2wu3VMVvNdgzISZFj+b4DDMqNkQ6ereMSB5d0s5Ujp/WanyT+RCcY3cwtKWzwxAIFm/y7oWhPwfRWVt5KuGG7irbKYx++6HvbPr6pBqLF7i+ITaw9n584jC8e4qEGG83p8KcTeK4LEebj/kRY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-priority:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=JBoAaupx61MnLLFoxRvdq3QGzOJ9J7nMq7fm28Tqe66n5iASg4oCSt0AMYZUGxU7fN7V+Y0lXXu0zZ1bsV+2er+n5S9DWIsKZ0+xRVSbRNdKZYNf6TgRSqoAsstI62cOubL7HtNmKUk5+lveOqdLhdXuiCcxKUG+OY2OFZbLz/M= Original-Received: by 10.78.201.10 with SMTP id y10mr2798440huf.1190749038178; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 12:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ?10.5.5.222? ( [84.9.229.88]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f3sm6310778nfh.2007.09.25.12.37.16 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 25 Sep 2007 12:37:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:79843 Archived-At: On 25 Sep 2007, at 19:38, Drew Adams wrote: > The doc everywhere uses `mouse-1' > etc., That is indeed a problem! It should be consistent across the board. > and that nomenclature is clear. There is absolutely nothing to be > gained by changing to `left' etc. No, it is not clear. A typical user has two mouse buttons. It is absolutely not obvious that the right mouse button is mapped to mouse-3. > On the contrary: `mouse-1' is just an identifier; it signifies > nothing about > physical button location. `Left' implies a spatial relation that > might not > be correct. It will be correct unless the user has remapped it, in which case they'd know. Actually, I think "click" and "right click"/"secondary click" would be good, too, because mouse-1 is usually the default, no matter whether the user is a leftie. (Remember that on Macs, there is no right mouse button - control-click is used instead!) If the user customizes this in Emacs, I presume we don't display `mouse-n', but the actual binding, right? Or is that tooltip hardcoded? But while we are debating whether to call it mouse-1 and -3, I'd like to point out that a good UI will normally do what is most obvious and what the user expects. That means that the right mouse button should bring up a context menu and not delete something - this is the standard on most systems and platforms, I believe. At least on the Mac and on Windows, the middle mouse-button is mapped centrally to something else. I have it mapped to a double-click. Applications interpret a left click to set the text cursor, mark text (dragging), activate/toggle buttons and follow links. The secondary mouse button always brings up a context menu - I can't think of a common application that doesn't do that (except Emacs). Double-clicks open or start things, usually in a new frame or window. I don't know what it means in the context of Emacs. One thing it translates to is showing *Messages* on double-click in the echo area, not on a simple mouse-1 (which can happen by chance occasionally). Doing something such as closing a window requires clicking on an explicit closer button. The idea to have that in the mode-line was, thus, a good one, even though it'll close the window above and not below (the button that is displayed can make that clear graphically).