From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Qiantan Hong Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Question collaborative editing - Wikipedia reference Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 01:03:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83eemji6e8.fsf@gnu.org> <20201001141144.GO4797@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201001160136.chwmpollk4d3qc2e@Ergus> <20201004175447.GG15516@protected.rcdrun.com> <87362tvnil.fsf@gmail.com> <20201004194815.GH15516@protected.rcdrun.com> <11EB917D-3276-4D34-8DCD-2336E8062950@mit.edu> <20201005040245.GJ15516@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201005084441.GB4453@protected.rcdrun.com> <87zh50lhda.fsf@red-bean.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5B92131D-F9B3-48B0-BB3E-3C4738A42C3A"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23079"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Fermin , Jean Louis , Caio Henrique , Noam Postavsky , Emacs developers , Karl Fogel , Stefan Monnier , Eli Zaretskii To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 06 03:05:02 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kPbPa-0005o8-09 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 03:05:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32960 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kPbPY-0001ja-Vo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2020 21:05:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56296) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kPbOj-0001FY-Ah for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Oct 2020 21:04:09 -0400 Original-Received: from outgoing-exchange-7.mit.edu ([18.9.28.58]:47037) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kPbOg-0000VK-Q2; Mon, 05 Oct 2020 21:04:08 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11exedge2.exchange.mit.edu (OC11EXEDGE2.EXCHANGE.MIT.EDU [18.9.3.18]) by outgoing-exchange-7.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 09613t3b013235; Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:04:00 -0400 Original-Received: from w92expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.7.74.70) by oc11exedge2.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.3.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1293.2; Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:03:33 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.4.47) by w92expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.7.74.70) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1365.1; Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:03:57 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu ([18.9.4.47]) by oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu ([18.9.4.47]) with mapi id 15.00.1365.000; Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:03:57 -0400 Thread-Topic: Question collaborative editing - Wikipedia reference Thread-Index: AQHWmzvL4LjU6k9HIUyZcJcFcadSFqmKBbmA In-Reply-To: <87zh50lhda.fsf@red-bean.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [18.18.245.17] Received-SPF: pass client-ip=18.9.28.58; envelope-from=qhong@mit.edu; helo=outgoing-exchange-7.mit.edu X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/05 21:04:04 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows 7 (Websense crawler) X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257150 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_5B92131D-F9B3-48B0-BB3E-3C4738A42C3A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > But this has 3 main problems. >=20 > 1) On one hand such services require some servers (to work like google > spreadsheet) and need to be provided somehow... something difficult as = I > don't think gnu or fsf have resources to maintain a service like that > and provide it. >=20 > 2) On the other hand it will be better if the service is somehow > distributed in order to give more privacy-security but also to reduce > the load of the servers... I still can't find any infrastructure we = can > use, cause most of the peer-to-peer libraries are for C++, javascript, > Node.js and so on (example: webrtc). Just on yesterday I found > n2n... But I am not a web specialist so it requires a lot of > experimenting time for me. >=20 > 3) The other workflow (create a local server for others) is the > "simplest" approach at the moment. But that is a problem for many use > cases due to dynamic ip addreses, firewalls, opening ports and so on. = It > is fine for a class room or company, but not for working from home. On this topic, I=E2=80=99m considering supporting sending the traffic = over IRC. Seems that it solves all those problem, what do you guys think? The process will be that one user create a channel with a random name, say on freenode.net, then they share the channel name with other user (maybe via IRC as well!). Others can then join the channel, and it behaves basically like TCP. To avoid spamming the same authentication protocol for TCP (to be implemented) can also work on IRC. The messages from user without authentication are simply discarded.= --Apple-Mail=_5B92131D-F9B3-48B0-BB3E-3C4738A42C3A Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCA70w ggO5MIIDIqADAgECAhAaql39NsO1qLVjkS2hl517MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNodXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3Rp dHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUwEwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjEwHhcNMjAwODAzMDEyNDIz WhcNMjEwODAxMDEyNDIzWjCBoTELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFjAUBgNVBAgTDU1hc3NhY2h1c2V0dHMx LjAsBgNVBAoTJU1hc3NhY2h1c2V0dHMgSW5zdGl0dXRlIG9mIFRlY2hub2xvZ3kxFTATBgNVBAsT DENsaWVudCBDQSB2MTEVMBMGA1UEAxMMUWlhbnRhbiBIb25nMRwwGgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFg1xaG9u Z0BNSVQuRURVMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAylUlEQdK4BSXKzoGh6As CKN/TpLmC0kjhPdxUKMj1/86Xl6GDCla4h95uISDOWVAKdu3cIlA8m9zRLT2jNEIkt1DVpXP6c9h y8RRyfJm0qlrvr6tsHi5AmO4Li6s2dEGaTxbakPL6vEn7ZYr86t5orq56nubki77Z8ZvRv9/fWdF bF/YBNGDayLNk0NbXIEQdCHiz1l+bxfw+GHHRmdOge3MKWSg463+GGMdxtLQ61AbtR2vm47FIJBt c0X6ptcInWUg4Nf/9vSNGl6KvREvfbEWKCT6TfL5ncIFlitf6ZWKue2PZ4ULFfIQ3/7EsEk03xxr S7sTOy7e2dbPboe/WwIDAQABo4GhMIGeMAkGA1UdEwQCMAAwEQYJYIZIAYb4QgEBBAQDAgWgMB0G A1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMEBggrBgEFBQcDAjALBgNVHQ8EBAMCBeAwHQYDVR0OBBYEFDeb9Jlj XSm+y0CD872IhzRDIGv1MDMGA1UdHwQsMCowKKAmoCSGImh0dHA6Ly9jYS5taXQuZWR1L2NhL21p dGNsaWVudC5jcmwwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQADgYEApBTx4tBbD5rQ+bNGd/Z3OBV07qFsm5QHNg0+ 6lxJ3j7q5zMMq35o6y5cBIhcFG6t+MFqJIdERZ3EprDturyqozQsIBMHFnqh+iZcMg0uQyssEqKZ hrzIdw8GuY4Z6jNewdGy5mwwG9yjpEbzWWgdofSM5rnezZz7EvCQu9ilt1sxggNDMIIDPwIBATCB gDBsMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEWMBQGA1UECBMNTWFzc2FjaHVzZXR0czEuMCwGA1UEChMlTWFzc2Fj aHVzZXR0cyBJbnN0aXR1dGUgb2YgVGVjaG5vbG9neTEVMBMGA1UECxMMQ2xpZW50IENBIHYxAhAa ql39NsO1qLVjkS2hl517MA0GCWCGSAFlAwQCAQUAoIIBkzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcN AQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0yMDEwMDYwMTAzNTdaMC8GCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEiBCDZ8m9NEsxh /eQD8wQ+mn05vFYT4rn1pPrnWm1kIFHl8DCBkQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMYGDMIGAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNodXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3Rp dHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUwEwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjECEBqqXf02w7WotWORLaGX nXswgZMGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGDoIGAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNo dXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3RpdHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUw EwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjECEBqqXf02w7WotWORLaGXnXswDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEA fabfQA8d7sVLuPQG9LwvMW33cKa1/K5SZzyTLaRqSHjtH97YAkvuHGYkHboni/1SJJZb2nLDkmnt nkzTPpgYfrq4BRj/IZ4DfaojSU61EPK5mkG+DuNEZP1ECRfSEfepqXNNupBonTVag/dEFXu4vITb cJ53gTbDiSOx3ley4hA0qRvjcGLSoRoDfmxzq9+3TaWbo6M98M32eO10g4qs3l7yes22ydAK2LfU 3pILsuGcypP2/ubbaS514UmpUEG9Vo3nIW5zDisUNZg3F4IfTn3mOTH4uOdIkoDHjDqXlv34w8la 6onlNaiQhPH/hAzMFnlOFmZo+kXOd1AqTd1rHgAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail=_5B92131D-F9B3-48B0-BB3E-3C4738A42C3A--