From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.comp.gnu.gettext.bugs Subject: Re: Emacs i18n Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 14:55:48 +0700 Message-ID: References: <25076895.mA2g9mTHSI@omega> <87h8bx5ijn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87y357q4uc.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="79328"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Emacs developers , bug-gettext@gnu.org, bruno@clisp.org, Juri Linkov To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 23 08:59:00 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1h7bYR-000KRK-NJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 08:58:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40158 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h7bYQ-00065u-HE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 03:58:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37777) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h7bXk-00065S-CH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 03:58:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h7bVc-0008Jh-FY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 03:56:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oi1-x230.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::230]:41575) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h7bVZ-0008Fk-Qh; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 03:56:02 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oi1-x230.google.com with SMTP id v7so3451699oie.8; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 00:56:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OPhhM6HNWJA/SS0Ad9z0OKE018WWOnmNYCly5YMFgzc=; b=Gq0cmqd3TP77FvBR7bmcmbHqPftTNUEeNeuUA1Lw040KVhw9aHZeAG7zEkwvDgrR/K tD3H0p7QUu00n5p0igx4F1gF4J9L6/g6HzmTAsrsStn/vSfuwjH82STWfkKKkCKozsC5 mMraUzrcNggNef8zdXTCqtfeC67nm2T1qGe6HJ8n1yHSlo3byV95mciM5K3Or+rWEZKk NLhwcvdJSaVWZbMKKH++yaT1FvjM774iyJVY70f1I36I9pxKxO7vqljbXoSjRfJpXQXZ FIKL4eP2cpzuCG4eRLZp8aNnGSm9xwaH3VJf/4MFWE7uK+fgqA0SHtVKXkdmu/xOflYJ 8+Fg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OPhhM6HNWJA/SS0Ad9z0OKE018WWOnmNYCly5YMFgzc=; b=f3LUSTyuj2/SwNgs+jkbGPRUwp01lJY3wTPHEJwOcfQ2HErcYZoBgOl1u93tBbYgls keXbbn0F8Zwn4z5Yp/zKTNIzFa71u10I4+uJtAw/JeE2fYegMKuvL4MYZNCTwhJ7xo5j 4uzakfgNC46tYfvRgE9KGXw2zDdSKF9pJVb9SLf/Pue6mUmRTsokDEVyRLHs9yo7uja1 tE9E8Bp8eD7Clb4lCmBfMmCvf6z5n/a8DPC6G03PFYf3O21FDcVgN4ghzNLacMpPA2CE kbyDRmoHCfgSuuLa6CGEGY27TlAglRT9tgk0mNWHqmI//a2B9GF0oLFNJZmvoZwIZFJ1 mt3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUcaJ0LXORePcPmQwaX/Ez7xyBa/Qi2L8ElpJNyeUKnI6DMdXqh kA2qg/6ev7yCO9r/SM+nEbNTj1sOVxXyTC78qdiLvdW0 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzjxcaEubGJMRfoZsXTdAsVwqWiPhURs4pF2q5NdDYqIMGG2iRB5pja2IboWIFSM8c/zpaNudC6e4BJ4uv/o2E= X-Received: by 2002:aca:f0c3:: with SMTP id o186mr4332774oih.101.1553327760497; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 00:56:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::230 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:234640 gmane.comp.gnu.gettext.bugs:1973 Archived-At: > It sounds like Russian has various declensions, like Latin. > Do I understand right? Yes, Russian has several declension types for nouns, and several conjugation types for verbs, and knowing the declension type helps one deduce the ending for each grammatical case and number, most of the time. > Are there standard names or codes for the declensions? At school, they teach us there are three declensions. First declension for feminine nouns and a few masculine nouns ending in -=D0=B0 and -=D1=8F; second declension for masculine nouns ending in a consonant and neuter nouns ending in -=D0=BE or -=D0=B5; and third declension for feminine nouns ending in -=D1=8C. This is not the complete picture. There are also non-declined nouns, nouns that decline as if they were adjectives or pronouns, and exceptions. > In Latin, each > declension has a number. I think those numbers are standard in > teaching of Latin, so everyone who can read Latin knows those numbers, > and translators would find it natural to use a construct that > specifies the proper declension by number. The difference is that any translation to Latin would be done by a linguist, while translation to Russian would be done by ordinary Russian-speaking people. Most of whom do not keep the scientific details of declensions in their heads any longer than necessary for their current study and work. > We would not have to implement all of them -- only those that > are useful enough to be worth implementing and documenting. Right, and pretty much the only part of grammar that is useful for software UI localization is the grammatical number, because that is the only thing that changes by circumstances outside the control of the code. It just does not happen that the same message would put a noun in different cases, or a verb in different tenses, depending on the value of some expression.