From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs i18n Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2019 15:45:23 +0700 Message-ID: References: <87o97aq6gz.fsf@jidanni.org> <87tvgoud56.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o96wk2mi.fsf@gnu.org> <87k1hjfvjd.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <871s3p0zdz.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83h8ckezyt.fsf@gnu.org> <83o96qegv1.fsf@gnu.org> <32b1ab1b-bef4-629a-8830-b1dcc6915087@cs.ucla.edu> <83a7iae9va.fsf@gnu.org> <05ed2dec-2a84-f7dc-1af5-c9d923992785@cs.ucla.edu> <87bm2p56gu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <837edbdg33.fsf@gnu.org> <65e3fe78-3264-12ff-1edf-a05bfd86a9a9@cs.ucla.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="46004"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Paul Eggert , =?UTF-8?Q?Elias_M=C3=A5rtenson?= , Emacs developers , Juri Linkov To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 10 10:18:34 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1h2ubJ-000BtF-Tj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2019 10:18:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42526 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h2ubI-0002k5-PG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2019 05:18:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47238) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h2u5j-0008V1-UB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2019 04:45:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h2u5h-0006zB-Tj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2019 04:45:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ot1-x32b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::32b]:41916) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h2u5R-0006n1-Iy; Sun, 10 Mar 2019 04:45:37 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ot1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id t7so1435670otk.8; Sun, 10 Mar 2019 00:45:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=bie+7Akvtks3F1+FCVmvwYkcNm4Sedcuk1ELof4FztY=; b=YHyCmmyRcmoDjHwAUGwvubIBbUIKqjO4o1VL9sVGMv9fx9I+AX6Q8F5FOVy09jkARV 9s4gLYj5dt2+LRM93sV/uExLdBDJQLFwIc9kcQMC4Df+Z2EJzG2e0cqNtOd0MzD7CcEw m0roZKpZAoXeewDiM08hv9SbTG1H+NjDnq8rQ7QBAYUyPfHGUbKwDsVAjMkjXVUNtiBZ mX5u41mc/E44m9Aap3JaH8COS/Pd0i1SEWNdLxF/LVJ+Axt9LOHkMrh/y4NwsY/u7OwM KBpt0C9vyedbEEAXa8d6VOewtjjJzX35l1yvqUsup/6DXVmPqGd/3e1SCvUqbt16Zvnv 3P6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=bie+7Akvtks3F1+FCVmvwYkcNm4Sedcuk1ELof4FztY=; b=X7K1dmMLZ+ZEfV26ZXl12QWXABC5unL2G3Kx+x964c/V4HoCJ5+Pxzc1vovjS35Iji gym6VekpUWSv9Dq0y75D1++N3/CuBkwOYR0PS+M5+dURec92Dpw/V8XnPp1PhT436KnT P5zYwtKkHpFdSXJFM38BRKwvO/XpQKDiI1sjGjLj3qUJE1qGS/A0loY2WIiZON9ygqrP O/JrdYyX10auwlqFL/Ctq7ZAWaBNJaulHKS6G0qUIYSinWzL0jD1G1/jvKEsetJcsxuR Sc3l9iDrcvtf2487FfUHBQfZ9ICrltPrkeKrIVPqqI+15SoW0lVuRj3wTEeOe9x/917Q j89A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVSJviX0EUymSkYqwrvKED26m0Brb1G5igglwnw6wQmMZ1oZ9VR a1zpJtr/CV07HDlsif4FbthOJXmdIrYlaZLByGFgjLN/ X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy0u+3ZpZOfmvHjKjY1MiZ19gH2SxlAyuBVvh0D7yKaDVJQCIjWyD92SWLE2UdlhNYxfjUIQs7xl5Yvbheb9Zc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:20d7:: with SMTP id z23mr17255272otq.178.1552207536276; Sun, 10 Mar 2019 00:45:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::32b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:234007 Archived-At: On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 10:06 AM Richard Stallman wrote: > 'russian-neut' selects numbers that require a neuter ending, in > Russian. You use it with a string that contains the neuter ending. > > If this does not work, why not? You are conflating three grammatical categories: the number, the gender, and the declension type. Gender and declension type are attributes of the noun, and are fixed with respect to the noun. So if your message is about bytes, your translator knows to use noun endings according to declension type 1a and verb endings for masculine gender; there is nothing left for the machine to guess. (Gender of the noun also affects the form of the numeral if it is spelled out, but for computer-generated messages we usually do not do that and just use digits.) Number depends on the numeral=E2=80=99s value and affects the forms of the noun, and any adjectives and verbs attached to it. Singular number applies to values than end in 1, except for values that end in 11. Dual number applies to values that end in 2..4, again, except for values that end in 12..14. Plural number applies to everything else. Any grammatical number can apply to any noun, so the translator will provide all three wordings and let the machine select one using the above logic. Your example would work if you changed -masc, -fem and -neut to -sing, -dual and -pl. But that is, as Paul mentioned, reinventing ngettext(3).