From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggested experimental test Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 13:12:03 +0700 Message-ID: References: <831ba60af0cbfdd95686@heytings.org> <87mtuxj8ue.fsf@gnus.org> <9088e12cb3de3d30abf1@heytings.org> <8735wnjsum.fsf@gnus.org> <83sg4n9jei.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2efhx3e.fsf@gnus.org> <838s6f9g5d.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2efgg3w.fsf@gnus.org> <878s6fgdzu.fsf@gnus.org> <19c1ec9e-a97f-a8ab-b966-edadbc299c39@yandex.ru> <7226c389-ebd7-29fd-23b8-c2dbfbf0c1a0@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6318"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Gregory Heytings , Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas , Emacs developers To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 25 07:23:52 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lPJPL-0001Yc-Pr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 07:23:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35582 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lPJPK-00084V-NE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 02:23:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40962) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lPJEN-00082q-P5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 02:12:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-vk1-xa36.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::a36]:45749) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lPJEG-000429-4W; Thu, 25 Mar 2021 02:12:31 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-vk1-xa36.google.com with SMTP id o4so147876vka.12; Wed, 24 Mar 2021 23:12:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=x4D9j+Dzq1LrGlCPRn80ZNIrPoRMLa5fb6Oj8yfE3mc=; b=UuAg8rSxwC5whB7wX1bUF97jwTJ1ZYysuJsXjuxkikLqhcsdrIwxI7I6h6DnSESR8R HcTeSZBLmxfKngnONDo712r7bnewp2flFmDutWfzQnC3Boz+6h/+u+IaZZ0pScnvjcch iwfkftbRsANP1ZTwqH/pnLsinx7U8TmhpUnSXsUv9deD+6B72tnzWihVkw0+78w+zaPH axLs07uM0VY6+xGZPmube1PYvJT1OCvJgx4QQrtcP5Vwn0DCz3u3oRoirUjAnmzIWxo2 1kdpPjOG83QvsciX9lSWRB0DDt0Kj7LgvHkMLrEYf5epKVtL1Yc+/uDWkHQgifl7DIoq /hIA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=x4D9j+Dzq1LrGlCPRn80ZNIrPoRMLa5fb6Oj8yfE3mc=; b=toKRUZQXgLjigxglZ6q5jQf1j310YvQl2PQaTMk7YLUpZByMAcbng3/b9Y2fNVHUCr aMftwnu9aYcrXH3Ovuf6ONBh/+npgxUxxUiSKa25ZVCNmJYdQY0NxArYPYgJzD6ScB/8 IUzP/uwyKQyiw8R5WfBTHFeJHSsImazBMBVYGQZB0kugO7UIVs/HLHaaJrYiXlyWTu0q 57RLcRingeGPNoTaQBLI4cujveaDwWQm7nyfil1iQscor8DUJh/AUzfOCR4G03GSJOCz efqsdxfGzIxxz6mfPIll1fu6A/AoMo6xlUzub4OJ6K47OyEX1CO00k+zXaEvNGmaQBuu a9aQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5333NDNEmVQBInp/oUZmv7n79WEf9vTjfPy3bBwvE3EYivnur/Qu YCH4iIYGlff6LlVTqQ/4xfooXJzLsQg2SVF3UW4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyu8QCgCzf7M2hmKkNURaqxAlS8sr7jaLYPkNTFt0oe2cIzDcvKXmNAjON/18xEuy2ud0mcGPaXSc9uiUrtQD0= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:5c88:: with SMTP id q130mr3901559vkb.14.1616652735133; Wed, 24 Mar 2021 23:12:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7226c389-ebd7-29fd-23b8-c2dbfbf0c1a0@yandex.ru> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::a36; envelope-from=yurivkhan@gmail.com; helo=mail-vk1-xa36.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267003 Archived-At: On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 06:41, Dmitry Gutov wrote: > > we should have a bulletproof way to move things off > > C-x and C-c. > > I think there are basically two directions: > > - Find two other C- prefix key combinations to move the main > prefix keymaps to. C-d and C-e come to mind (basically all other keys > that are situated closer to Ctrl or Caps on a qwerty keyboard are all > taken up by popular bindings such as C-a "select all" or C-s "save file")= . What, being close to (left) Ctrl on a QWERTY is/was a consideration when choosing C-x and C-c? This makes sense, as much as it does for Undo/Cut/Copy/Paste. > - Go all the way to VS Code/Atom/Notepad/etc approach and depopulate > these prefix maps. And then use two modifiers at a time for the > important commands/prefix maps which we still need to have bindings. For > example, that would move 'C-x v' to 'C-M-g' and 'C-x C-i' to 'C-M-o', or > similar. In my personal bindings, I do prefer C-M-, C-S- and M-S- combinations to sequences. (Also function keys and their C- and S- combinations.) > Or maybe we could combine these both in some productive fashion. > > Not sure if that's the response you were looking for. Personally, I'm > content with only using a small part of foreign conventions in my Emacs > bindings and not looking to switch away. But if we're going to devise a > proper solution for newcomer-friendly bindings, I don't think we should > stop at just the four that cua-mode changes. I=E2=80=99m way past the newcomer stage but I have not and am not going to adopt Emacs as my desktop environment. And, for me, consistency across the desktop is important. So I want C-x for cut and C-c for copy, and I might like to move their traditional maps to any of C-[abdefimnop;'] or maybe (because my keyboard has working arrow keys and Home and End at positions that do not require me to move my wrists so I don=E2=80=99t get the traditionally quoted benefit from C-[fbnp]). But, while I can (mostly) rebind something to ctl-x-map, in order to move things off C-c, I=E2=80=99d have to basically copy every mode=E2=80=99= s map into my configuration and replace C-c with . Alternatively, I could use some key translation mechanism to pretend produces C-c and C-c produces or some such, but I=E2=80=99m not sure if that woul= d also affect sequences where C-c is not the first key (and I=E2=80=99d proba= bly like it not to).