From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Towards a WYSIWYG word processing (was: What improvements would be truly useful?) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 21:35:49 +0700 Message-ID: References: <83d10freh8.fsf@gnu.org> <83d10epu31.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1520519662 24032 195.159.176.226 (8 Mar 2018 14:34:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 14:34:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs developers , John Wiegley , Daniele Nicolodi , rms@gnu.org, John Yates To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 08 15:34:17 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1etwcb-00066w-Ec for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2018 15:34:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39386 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1etwee-0007ii-8e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2018 09:36:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36496) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1etweU-0007iI-So for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2018 09:36:18 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1etweU-0001gl-1v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2018 09:36:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ot0-x236.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::236]:41219) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1etweQ-0001fh-Eo; Thu, 08 Mar 2018 09:36:10 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ot0-x236.google.com with SMTP id w38so5547918ota.8; Thu, 08 Mar 2018 06:36:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DyeXcprLVmn3pMPKBws9U3Vh8zC2vGRt8PzW+YHTIkE=; b=aFCJlDcFflGpwMXZkkm3z8Ewz11Yl736FfaPqqTp3qJfOSC5YpV4p/mSFFWttNNEl1 1JxAuvhVOcoCCtL7Exc82bpc3TGcrqOFt6dzgFNGcQd0Vv+nTXPMsQ0JDiw8YKdTcfhp DCNR7nFKw4EoStYyxikSloVoAwReLrrC2Ctz2kFj/WvmT7CEnIRhY0hRaRYcLTCnC0IT Wm5q+Wp/U4Uh3Ck6jqMmap8RKL6XNhtBLp1b/00fPpvBD/ArfXugfZLMLx5xsQ8aOU4v j2mwzYtzJqN8MG0JAMF5BpF+u3sIPjPRjXn9/z4vKK0heKk6L20DEybeHNIrRD/RZ17J 0Csg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DyeXcprLVmn3pMPKBws9U3Vh8zC2vGRt8PzW+YHTIkE=; b=ftK+CsWFRnEXssBEqfesTQKMfV8mt5LSLXKoXklKEep/X7Y9D38mWn6+2nlHY19tYq RTXrcWxq1JmdJuR291OQo/nwLqwe1TXrviTx0EftApy4E2Y5UtQqXQcUMrkCWr97zJRU cepvTs6vh6JQJoWcefpso1I67kqs9PwsVvQtKsFoHgbapmsnTZPdsGO3NiqOXTB/AKyu vYvNJBUAw2czeeo6CB/U0ppi8YJeQhphoyxMeN3gs+RmQppRDPm9kk71ibHtQR/diJMJ fH6ooezKnYkWbBczc6ObV6ZjdUM1YAFS0Fqn9UfxKBhNlEghDVkmoPAIr6YiiNWXONGl 0zag== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7EgEfXY4J+jtYsdrcCczc5Q+0stpuD9iTZUgWlX9lXwzHxXb49G 6sR3eBxLNOAZcVx3A1CgK33/YmNdbQzWuN9wpy8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AG47ELtFxpJJGRvMbwWTA+jUIfSA4FZRKL9FOW70mmD6Vnf/WqYngjTaP+3vfQGptyjQ15Csg+rVbwAMPvS2tPt13Ds= X-Received: by 10.157.74.20 with SMTP id h20mr19327466otf.381.1520519769433; Thu, 08 Mar 2018 06:36:09 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.74.211.77 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Mar 2018 06:35:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83d10epu31.fsf@gnu.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: VVCkQFPtIHTWEpt8jYA7WSRa8xA X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:223500 Archived-At: On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:36 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > We have very different experiences with styles and templates, it > seems. I hate them and rarely if ever use them in the documents I > need to write on my daytime job (and I write quite a few of them). > IME, styles in Office like applications get in the way too much, in > that you change something at some place, and suddenly many unrelated > places change as well. That is a consequence of two possible reasons: * Office-like applications do not make you very aware of styles. To see what style is applied, you have to position the point and look at the style selection box. That is in contrast with markup-based editing workflows, where you have opening and closing tags in your face all the time. * Your lexicon of styles is poorly designed, that you use one style where you need two or more. > So I prefer applying styles by hand, locally wherever I need that. It > works wonders on my productivity. How big are your documents, how long-lived are they, and are they part of a bigger collection that needs to be consistently formatted? I might forgo styles in case of a self-sufficient document under two pages that I need to print out once and not even bother to save to a file. Otherwise I=E2=80=99d have the opposite problem of having to do the same change in too many places and never being sure I got them all.