From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 12:45:52 +0700 Message-ID: References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> <770f48a8-664a-40ae-8e03-19f6aad248b6@default> <20180910181615.GA4829@ACM> <874lev3bq4.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180912131602.GA5582@ACM> <87d0tihxzw.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180913174640.GB4019@ACM> <8736udkuit.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180914104833.GA4103@ACM> <83k1nojgia.fsf@gnu.org> <874leq799e.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <835zz5ie17.fsf@gnu.org> <87musg0wyf.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <83va73f0mv.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1537422274 28478 195.159.176.226 (20 Sep 2018 05:44:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 05:44:34 +0000 (UTC) Cc: hw@adminart.net, spacibba@aol.com, Joost Kremers , Noam Postavsky , Emacs developers , Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams , Phillip Lord To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 20 07:44:29 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g2rlN-0007If-2b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 07:44:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48468 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2rnT-0006FL-3W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 01:46:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35383) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2rnF-0006DQ-OI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 01:46:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2rnE-0006mx-RB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 01:46:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oi0-x233.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c06::233]:43615) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2rmy-0006Tz-1Y; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 01:46:09 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oi0-x233.google.com with SMTP id b15-v6so7264991oib.10; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 22:46:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kwPwAHAZiM6a3cuD7ZkZIueibgYgq3GQfmuBbYtaVCE=; b=ctcZDBdBGXVwANDCSrSjtqd4xqIvh4m9fesWsbsP2MlbPrJt51533OePLpJAA7ssti UL+g+gVtMIkfHwcACpb24aRPy1IRO+Ku6Xunkk3W2m+9xoZ7gSXVAncKqcZhAY1uxv/V RBfCeSm62QTBMVG5t7lycBqC0YOSErCH6DyxeQHYr2DjmNfCCZhzClXy2HgGqdsBBdau +dnM3HEu6GOcAvSNEI9f/mFvfejV8YYd+zdWhcOU7PuGCrPi76Oe8cUVSRrGu+8MeE8A marw1n8EfRyC40wN5UgEH5x/3G6Gs944lpZ5FZRGfTT/zocdORUg4/zp3XF9lp2BjaIG 6qWA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kwPwAHAZiM6a3cuD7ZkZIueibgYgq3GQfmuBbYtaVCE=; b=gJpkwzgdcURFuv5GSFYomM3Y9H6/B7q7+rdb0dMOtaIPeO/SMCkKmeK1SMUDrlsauf a5kp5lEBJPfBAcIhzRtglB48hSAJAcMa4X7xxcd04vmaZ3egvaGKA41xn8IQ4SbP3RqL uaVbS/jaurw6vIKWPuMjAjSjqrrm21YSpQEjUXb6i9YZ7Ma7EUdIotTIlnhQWF3cfdgY WNCv8bAv/YilE0ankicxRwWJm18ZmOdtm+v9NROmDrlpREHuN1t5Yi7jX61AHv3W2c0l c9XkLBnZhfzStxTABmHO9nfeVx/Fpde4nU7gV499ohr/yY0DCUFOASZeFkZWpAJcxUCZ rOuw== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51CQ5uwEFivej/NkrIKtJvEJLaKFj8cFQhWNvS/kwHXB0eSHErqd F6U8uJDeRgKcHk24Jl+C1SYD9cW62YOgA7egvwtHpA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdbjhOoAVprxkMsjqwy3kGqNd7lkJiy25uzq31It74tnf+Ql9Z6x6tyluhjc2MNRUUTr6vgSSHoG0FQX5J3GOGg= X-Received: by 2002:aca:e487:: with SMTP id b129-v6mr568925oih.291.1537422364733; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 22:46:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::233 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229976 Archived-At: On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 8:46 AM Richard Stallman wrote: > > some text without replacing the selection. > > > C-g C-S-g > > If C-S-g were given a suitable definition, > that command sequence would do what you have in mind. > > However, it requires typing two extra characters, so it is an > inconvenience in something that is currently easy and natural. > It also requires remembering more. You are using the current default Emacs behavior (delete-selection-mode off) as the baseline for comparison. In that setup, yes, you can insert text right away. However, the context of discussion is when delete-selection-mode is on. In that setup, typing new text replaces the selection, and the assumption is that most new users expect that and want that behavior most of the time. So, in the rare case that one wants to insert text without replacing the active region, one has two options: a) Disable delete-selection-mode temporarily, insert new text, and then enable d-s-m again. This takes a minimum of two extra key presses, if d-s-m is bound to a key; more if it isn=E2=80=99t. b) Deactivate the region, insert new text, then reactivate the region. b0) As far as I can tell, currently, the most economical way to do that is C-g then C-x C-x (three extra key presses), and it has a side effect of exchanging mark and point. b1) A novice user will typically deactivate the region by doing a dummy point movement, either by clicking at the point, or by two mutually canceling motions: . After inserting new text, if they still need the region to be active, they will most probably re-select it, with whatever selection gesture they are used to (mouse or shift-selection). So my suggestion is no worse than the existing solutions.