From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help' Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 17:01:28 +0700 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33858"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Emacs developers To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 22 11:05:24 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lE85j-0008gN-Di for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:05:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60426 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lE85i-0004xE-H2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 05:05:22 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44806) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lE82B-0002Ts-8Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 05:01:43 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-vk1-xa30.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::a30]:44662) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lE829-0007CV-NA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 05:01:43 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-vk1-xa30.google.com with SMTP id k1so2688304vkb.11 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:01:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Yk3wr61CUJcIyEhlNq9StzOxnooFQH3oqh9ULyXosjY=; b=DQCIqtCwzhwpvQJWMELXifL5qILPlkxjxpPcYZuSzHp8ZQr8qgSgBoDNRjga5mXtz9 STJkv70QirwLnCNjRCrL7SWaBR0sY/UjpGesoVO+IwzRVlpzQZRCQ402hrex9s0hFoy4 0bidRfyjcFT6bLw3jOZDJpCFdcTMKpcS7N5WJwyr4ZRhqtwEuqRXFl5GbpBE8BFtknR4 vYmWTdQgVIJKDeAqU9KChqUqMvP2x5YIu02I2weyirH3d9xvV23XCS/3YP6vZfednlHG ywurpC2EgSWpBSfJnGQODdWpUCto+oxDth0Fb96vbvyIvceivX/rV12nK3danqN041wK riGw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Yk3wr61CUJcIyEhlNq9StzOxnooFQH3oqh9ULyXosjY=; b=p8MWfz+o2GjsNHLEKq9TXUcs2KkTKNo+fsynuX74DfB5UTvVzAGbvgWIoD7L25AKJ/ 7TlMy3XaxHTXFKHDcA+pjZeo53QEARdlvgDfha+5I63euu3laAGhP2W6z1Bhs2d1hM23 vBmad/pRjtJl1yJSE2ozFlOY5nMcylY1hQ0zJ3ql1UAPnIIE6hVBXzm8DqHoPpPDFXs8 N3jJ0ysjU0mQ4njGYTP9HZLPhnsNxEQCO5VN03r4zgVsJLFQCc7NmEHIbGOqS8Runh8r qY1U8+T69C6zPbnnqXmMqBnHgdh1FQ9FxcMV3hm8wcEepDeoBFKdoE+8wbX3eeHqg+vU rrow== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Sehvw4VlDRuSY4QKIRseDmcv0oO9KEa4ba5M6Km4n1oR71v8E DKGnPHeH0ywA28w0JcvTOl0L4lCHDgNyr2ikV3Rs6Zz2x40= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz3Vy7GQu4zrnBnyOPguckPuHliEFuOmkQoJk+ci4u/ltnJIppyXGEPy4w1u3iNH4pL0INAW1Ooc41m4TVgsZ8= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:c582:: with SMTP id v124mr12828532vkf.18.1613988099913; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 02:01:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::a30; envelope-from=yurivkhan@gmail.com; helo=mail-vk1-xa30.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265472 Archived-At: On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 at 19:08, Stefan Kangas wrote: > One of the usability complaints I've heard is that `help-for-help' > (`C-h C-h') could be better organized. I also think some colors could > really help in making it easier to navigate. There is some discussion going in this thread concerning the order and sectioning. I=E2=80=99d like to make a few usability suggestions, too. Is there a reason that help-for-help is page-scrollable with Space/Backspace and C-v/M-v but not PageUp/PageDown, and line-scrollable with the mouse wheel but not Up/Down arrow keys? A newcomer will try those and be surprised by the help buffer silently disappearing. Shift+Space should probably also act as =E2=80=9Cscroll a page back=E2=80= =9D on terminals where this key is distinguishable.