From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Akira Kyle Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On Contributing To Emacs Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 13:17:27 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87k0fn8od1.fsf@gnus.org> <83y242ip0a.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13363"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Richard Stallman , Emacs developers To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 30 21:19:12 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n31tI-0003OL-1W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 21:19:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53962 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n31tG-0007sG-UW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 15:19:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49278) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n31rs-0006fO-6M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 15:17:44 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-f51.google.com ([209.85.167.51]:44714) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n31rq-0007qd-Er; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 15:17:43 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-f51.google.com with SMTP id g26so56490276lfv.11; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 12:17:41 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3N7vSJtOJpMc0d/y8lwH16BkI7VV6e3nqBiYY06jwh8=; b=u+g80Cl5lWrifwI8gTaMUEMQnod8JVFxFfwoJs4xFHGTjlG3GFf/5oU7uDCfnYneWt SXjgNMLhZYZiR8K9tcYiYcA3Y9hTVXXiQVYqPWrENteq0IGePjqT2lj0hiGuiNQWfpzG Sj230Q23pzz6xgWXaLLnnBo6J0PhYyXzH9n9u9D7rOwDRwslVyMVFNwSWRkFd2tLdUfD tsicu6lgCIXun5noT5O0k3Xrmi1BxTSbxLkjwDkZ2Alv3WO2IIEFz1wylLOGjHtktJIf RIEisusSBviNRHKNwyIHFbfQlCVrSwGuFXPn2QTH5+PFPyqw7WZqv82wVjS4cplo6km9 CMNg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530mXqKzfdiVhdRXg1JTE8jgRXfCEg01ybndvTMlT1gXK6f10TsX m7KIGv4xTKDMauBeopiOASl8/xDLnIeg9rnp X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw9rKXZ+z9gkfFTs3l/wDP59Hdsb67fSyCD6BiGBkHuId4Ypyc9WHhDt/syUdOH722s1P1WrA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:1382:: with SMTP id p2mr28968934lfa.403.1640895459958; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 12:17:39 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from mail-lf1-f54.google.com (mail-lf1-f54.google.com. [209.85.167.54]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bu41sm578518lfb.276.2021.12.30.12.17.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Dec 2021 12:17:39 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by mail-lf1-f54.google.com with SMTP id h7so11975430lfu.4; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 12:17:39 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4e13:: with SMTP id e19mr28007627lfr.154.1640895459481; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 12:17:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83y242ip0a.fsf@gnu.org> X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.167.51; envelope-from=aikokyle@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-f51.google.com X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:283680 Archived-At: On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 11:30 PM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > It is really a shame that this process is so time consuming and > > discouraging for someone like me. > > The word "shame" doesn't belong here IMO, or at least it isn't the > copyright assignment process that should be ashamed. Blame the > ridiculous software copyright issues and large corporations that are > behind those, and also dishonest people and companies which use free > software without making their code freely available. > I understand the motivation and the worries. Personally I put more blame on the laws as they exist, and I support advocacy and lobbying work for improving protections for free software. I just wanted to voice my personal experience to this list since I assume most people here have gone through this process years ago and so it may not be so apparent that this process does present a non-insignificant barrier to contribution. As laws, legal precedent, and software practices are very much not static, it seems like projects that have assignment processes should periodically reevaluate whether those processes still serve the best interests of the project. As Stefan Kangas pointed out, GCC recently reevaluated their process and decided that it would be in their best interest to change it. Based on the initial reactions to my original mail, it seems emacs is not ready to even make such a reevaluation. Sorry for the additional noise this caused, I just thought it would be important to voice my frustrations here so that the viewpoint from someone trying to become a newer contributor is heard. My impression is that such viewpoints are underrepresented on this list.