Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Miguel Ruiz]

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Hello,

In the following link

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uigdfnb9x7b8ta1/RlHNiwBQ57

you can find  w32 distribution of Emacs 24.3.

The distribution was built from official Emacs 24.3 release package and
with:

- MinGW gcc 4.7.2

- configure --with-gcc --no-debug --cflags
-I%lib_path%/libXpm-3.5.10/include --cflags -I%lib_path%/libXpm-3.5.10/src
--cflags -I%lib_path%/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1_win32/include --cflags
-I%lib_path%/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2_win32/include --cflags
-I%lib_path%/giflib-4.1.4-1-lib/include --cflags
-I%lib_path%/jpeg-6b-4-lib/include --cflags
-I%lib_path%/tiff-3.8.2-1-lib/include --cflags
-I%lib_path%/libxml2-2.7.8-w32-bin/include/libxml2 --cflags
-I%lib_path%/gnutls-3.1.5-w32/include --cflags
-I%lib_path%/libiconv-1.14-2-mingw32-dev/include  --distfiles
%lib_path%/libXpm-3.5.10/src/libXpm.dll

- mingw32-make -j4 bootstrap

- mingw32-make dist



Please, administrators feel free to copy archives whatever repo they like.

I could provide different binaries as a result of different configure
options if required.


Thanks to GNU and Emacs community, and to Dani Moncayo for his polished
recipe to build binaries.


Miguel Ruiz.

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Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Uwe Siart]

Miguel Ruiz <rbenit68@gmail.com> writes:

> Hello,In the following
> linkhttps://www.dropbox.com/sh/uigdfnb9x7b8ta1/RlHNiwBQ57you can find
>  w32 distribution of Emacs 24.3.

Thanks Miguel. I tried it out. The first problem I face is: I can't read
your post with gnus in 24.3. When I open your post I get "libxml2
library not found". The headers of your post are displayed but not the
body text. With 24.2 everything is fine.

In the official 24.2 binary dist the file libXpm.dll is 504.492 bytes.
In your archive it is only 163.916 bytes. Could this be related?

-- 
Uwe

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Uwe Siart]

Uwe Siart <usenet@siart.de> writes:

> Thanks Miguel. I tried it out. The first problem I face is: I can't read
> your post with gnus in 24.3. When I open your post I get "libxml2
> library not found". The headers of your post are displayed but not the
> body text. With 24.2 everything is fine.

gnutls support seems not to work either:

,----
| smtpmail-send-it: Sending failed: 530 5.7.0 Must issue a STARTTLS command first
`----

I have gnutls installed and on PATH. 24.2 is fine.

-- 
Uwe

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Miguel Ruiz]

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Sorry,

Let me check every dependence. Maybe some corrupt file in the
archiving/transfer step.

Miguel

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Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Xue Fuqiao]

On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:14:04 +0100
Uwe Siart <usenet@siart.de> wrote:

> > Hello,In the following
> > linkhttps://www.dropbox.com/sh/uigdfnb9x7b8ta1/RlHNiwBQ57you can find
> >  w32 distribution of Emacs 24.3.

> Thanks Miguel. I tried it out. The first problem I face is: I can't read
> your post with gnus in 24.3. When I open your post I get "libxml2
> library not found". The headers of your post are displayed but not the
> body text. With 24.2 everything is fine.

FYIY, maybe you can try this binary:

http://www.zlatkovic.com/libxml.en.html

I don't know whether it works, I haven't tried.

-- 
Best regards, Xue Fuqiao.
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Miguel Ruiz]

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Releasing a more conservative distribution:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uigdfnb9x7b8ta1/RlHNiwBQ57

- libXpm-3.5.8 and tested
- corrected: --cflags -I%lib_path%/gnutls-3.1.8-w32/include
- no libxml2 support

i.e.

configure --with-gcc --no-debug --cflags -I%lib_path%/libXpm-3.5.8/include
--cflags -I%lib_path%/libXpm-3.5.8/src --cflags
-I%lib_path%/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1_win32/include --cflags
-I%lib_path%/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2_win32/include --cflags
-I%lib_path%/giflib-4.1.4-1-lib/include --cflags
-I%lib_path%/jpeg-6b-4-lib/include --cflags
-I%lib_path%/tiff-3.8.2-1-lib/include  --cflags
-I%lib_path%/gnutls-3.1.8-w32/include   --distfiles
%lib_path%/libXpm-3.5.8/src/libXpm.dll

Please, note the gnutls-3.1.8 version, different from Emacs 24.2 official
binaries (gnutls-3.0.9)

Miguel

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Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Uwe Siart]

Miguel Ruiz <rbenit68@gmail.com> writes:

> Releasing a more conservative distribution:nofollow"

Miguel, thanks for your prompt action. The problems I had with your
first package they disappeared.

I will use this package now for productive work. Should some other issue
pop up I'll post it here.

-- 
Uwe

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Uwe Siart]

Uwe Siart <usenet@siart.de> writes:

> I will use this package now for productive work. Should some other issue
> pop up I'll post it here.

There are no more problems that I can realize until now (at least within
my usecases). IMO this package could become the official windows binary
distribution.

-- 
Uwe

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Uwe Siart <usenet@siart.de>
> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 07:58:57 +0100
> 
> Uwe Siart <usenet@siart.de> writes:
> 
> > I will use this package now for productive work. Should some other issue
> > pop up I'll post it here.
> 
> There are no more problems that I can realize until now (at least within
> my usecases). IMO this package could become the official windows binary
> distribution.

It would be better if libxml2 support were included in a distribution
we consider official and recommend for download.  I also don't
understand why GnuTLS 3.0.9 and libxml2 2.7.8 from the site advertised
in nt/INSTALL caused any trouble.  These 2 work for me, and AFAIK for
others.  If there are some problems with those binary distributions,
we should fix them, because we cannot advertise incompatible packages.
OTOH, if there's something wrong in Miguel's build procedures that
causes incompatibility, those procedures should be fixed.

Miguel, could you please report what was wrong with your original
build, and why you switched to a different binary of GnuTLS?

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Miguel Ruiz]

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Hi Uwe and Eli.

I do not know well enough what version of the compiler and the libraries
are the officially accepted.

In my private builds I tend to use the most updated stable version I can
find, the same with the compiler.


So, for future reference to the list, please, could you specify:

1) - Preferred compiler version?

2) - With/without libxml2 included? AFAIK  In Emacs 24.2 official windows
binaries, libxml2 was left out. (
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2012-09/msg00304.html )

3) - Should every dependent library be recompiled with the chosen version
of the compiler, or left as is distributed?

4) - Different configure options?


From your last post, I will asume GnuTLS 3.0.9 and libxml2 2.7.8 included,
but I would like answers/discussion of 1), 3) and 4).


I have no problems in making another build with the official specifications.


Miguel.

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Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 10:25:40 +0100
> From: Miguel Ruiz <rbenit68@gmail.com>
> 
> So, for future reference to the list, please, could you specify:
> 
> 1) - Preferred compiler version?

There are no clear preferences regarding this one, although the latest
stable MinGW release (4.7.2 as of this writing, AFAIK) is better,
because newer GCCs generally produce better debug info, so make it
easier to investigate problems and crashes.

> 2) - With/without libxml2 included? AFAIK  In Emacs 24.2 official windows
> binaries, libxml2 was left out. (
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2012-09/msg00304.html )

It is best to include support for every optional library supported on
Windows.  The only exception is librsvg whose support is still
experimental (see nt/INSTALL).  If the Emacs binaries supports a
library, the end user still has the option of deciding whether or not
to download and install the library itself.  By contrast, if some
library is not supported by emacs.exe, users have no options but avoid
using the features which require that library.

> 3) - Should every dependent library be recompiled with the chosen version
> of the compiler, or left as is distributed?

If you recompile the libraries, you will need to provide their
binaries in the bundle.  While this is acceptable (and perhaps even
convenient for people who want a single "sumo" package), it will
require that you also provide the source tarballs of every library on
the same site where you provide the binaries, to be compatible with
GPL.

Therefore, it might be better to use the libraries from the sites we
advertise in nt/INSTALL and README.W32, because those sites already
provide the sources and their binaries were already successfully
tested with Emacs.

> 4) - Different configure options?

For the released versions -- none, except those you need to point the
compiler to the headers of the optional libraries.  (If you install
all the headers under the system-wide include directory, the list of
such options will be empty or almost empty.  But for some reason,
people tend to install each optional library in its own directory, in
which case you will need at least one "--cflags -I..." pair for each
library.  I recommend -- and do it myself -- putting all the headers
under the same include directory, but YMMV.)

For the pretest versions and development snapshots, add the following
switches to the configure invocation, besides what is needed for the
optional libraries:

    --no-opt --enable-checking

> I have no problems in making another build with the official specifications.

Thanks.  What worried me was that your original binary seemed to have
problems with libxml2 and libgnutls which we recommend, so if there
are any problems, let's investigate and fix them.

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Uwe Siart]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Thanks. What worried me was that your original binary seemed to have
> problems with libxml2 and libgnutls which we recommend, so if there
> are any problems, let's investigate and fix them.

Thanks for your efforts into the windows build. Unfortunately I can't
join the discussion since I have absolutely no clue about building Emacs
from the tarball and OS specific issues. I can just try out a particular
build and report what happens.

-- 
Uwe

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Miguel Ruiz]

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In the following url

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uigdfnb9x7b8ta1/RlHNiwBQ57

you can find, I hope, the last candidate of Emacs 24.3 for Win.

Also, you can find the detailed log of building and dist making. The most
relevant part (of the building process) is:

- gcc version 4.7.2

  configure --with-gcc --no-debug

--cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2_win32/include

--cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/libXpm-3.5.8/include

--cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/libXpm-3.5.8/src

--cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1_win32/include

--cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/giflib-4.1.4-1-lib/include

--cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/jpeg-6b-4-lib/include

--cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/tiff-3.8.2-1-lib/include

--cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/libxml2-2.7.8-w32-bin/include/libxml2

--cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/gnutls-3.0.9-w32/include

--distfiles c:/EmacsLibs/libXpm-3.5.8/src/libXpm.dll


Thanks Eli for clarifying the details (
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-03/msg00434.html )


Thanks again the GNU and Emacs communities, and Dani Moncayo.


If emacs.exe is preferred with debug info, do not hesitate to ask for
it. I have followed the pattern of releases 24.1 and 24.2.


HTH

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Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 19:09:17 +0100
> From: Miguel Ruiz <rbenit68@gmail.com>
> 
> In the following url
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uigdfnb9x7b8ta1/RlHNiwBQ57
> 
> you can find, I hope, the last candidate of Emacs 24.3 for Win.

Thank you.

> If emacs.exe is preferred with debug info, do not hesitate to ask for
> it. I have followed the pattern of releases 24.1 and 24.2.

Following the release pattern is the right thing in this case.

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Uwe Siart]

Miguel Ruiz <rbenit68@gmail.com> writes:

> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uigdfnb9x7b8ta1/RlHNiwBQ57

Everything fine. StartTLS works. There was still the issue with libxml2
anytime I opened one of your posts in this thread (error libxml2 not
found, empty article). 24.2 at least displayed the text, though not
correctly formatted. But then I simply grabbed libxml2.dll, iconv.dll,
and zlib1.dll, added them to the Emacs bin directory and now everything
is alright.

-- 
Uwe

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Richard Stallman]

    you can find, I hope, the last candidate of Emacs 24.3 for Win.

Thanks for making them, but please don't distribute them through Dropbox.
The Dropbox site requires running nonfree Javascript code, and while running
Losedows is bad enough, we should not ask even a Losedows user to run some
other nonfree software.

Also, it would be appreciated not to refer to Losedows as "Win".

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Uwe Siart <usenet@siart.de>
> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 13:19:29 +0100
> 
> Miguel Ruiz <rbenit68@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uigdfnb9x7b8ta1/RlHNiwBQ57
> 
> Everything fine. StartTLS works. There was still the issue with libxml2
> anytime I opened one of your posts in this thread (error libxml2 not
> found, empty article). 24.2 at least displayed the text, though not
> correctly formatted. But then I simply grabbed libxml2.dll, iconv.dll,
> and zlib1.dll, added them to the Emacs bin directory and now everything
> is alright.

Which probably means you had incompatible DLLs somewhere on PATH.

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Christoph]

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Thank you Miguel for doing this.

Sorry guys, I had to completely take some time off from any side projects
for personal matters, but things are looking better now.

I have been out of the loop of any discussion arount this topic. Is there
still the desire to host the Windows binaries on the GNU server?
I know at least Richard has expressed his dislike of the current
distribution mechanism, i.e. Dropbox.

If yes, there are two options: 1.) I (or Miguel?) could upload Miguels
build to the GNU server or 2.) I could build the 24.3 like I did with 24.1
and 24.2 and upload it.

Please let me know.

As for the weekly builds I used to provide (more or less weekly), I
unfortunately can't commit to doing those anymore. My personal and
professional use of Emacs on Windows (I dabble and work almost exlusively
in GNU/Linux now :-)) has gone down to almost zero in the last few months
and the regular releases are sufficient for my limited use cases. Regular
releases I can still build and upload to the GNU server if desired so.

Thanks,
Christoph


On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Miguel Ruiz <rbenit68@gmail.com> wrote:

> In the following url
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uigdfnb9x7b8ta1/RlHNiwBQ57
>
> you can find, I hope, the last candidate of Emacs 24.3 for Win.
>
> Also, you can find the detailed log of building and dist making. The most
> relevant part (of the building process) is:
>
> - gcc version 4.7.2
>
>   configure --with-gcc --no-debug
>
> --cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2_win32/include
>
> --cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/libXpm-3.5.8/include
>
> --cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/libXpm-3.5.8/src
>
> --cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1_win32/include
>
> --cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/giflib-4.1.4-1-lib/include
>
> --cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/jpeg-6b-4-lib/include
>
> --cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/tiff-3.8.2-1-lib/include
>
> --cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/libxml2-2.7.8-w32-bin/include/libxml2
>
> --cflags -Ic:/EmacsLibs/gnutls-3.0.9-w32/include
>
> --distfiles c:/EmacsLibs/libXpm-3.5.8/src/libXpm.dll
>
>
> Thanks Eli for clarifying the details ( http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-03/msg00434.html )
>
>
> Thanks again the GNU and Emacs communities, and Dani Moncayo.
>
>
> If emacs.exe is preferred with debug info, do not hesitate to ask for it. I have followed the pattern of releases 24.1 and 24.2.
>
>
> HTH
>
>

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Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Uwe Siart]

Christoph <cschol2112@gmail.com> writes:

> Is there still the desire to host the Windows binaries on the GNU
> server?

IMO yes, because this is the place where one would look for them, isn't
it?

> I dabble and work almost exlusively in GNU/Linux now :

Lucky you!

> Regular releases I can still build and upload to the GNU server if
> desired so.

Those would be really crucial. But I'm not so sure if weekly snapshots
for windows are worth the effort.

-- 
Uwe

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[chad]

On 17 Mar 2013, at 06:16, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:

> Thanks for making them, but please don't distribute them through Dropbox.
> The Dropbox site requires running nonfree Javascript code, and while running
> Losedows is bad enough, we should not ask even a Losedows user to run some
> other nonfree software.

I make frequent use of dropbox, without ever visiting their web
site.  Of course, dropbox itself uses nonfree code on both the
server and client, so that may not matter to you.

Sadly, the 2.5 free dropbox-alikes I know about have all gone nowhere
in the past couple years.

~Chad

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Xue Fuqiao]

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 00:28:26 -0700
chad <yandros@MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Sadly, the 2.5 free dropbox-alikes I know about have all gone nowhere
> in the past couple years.

It seems that Seafile[1] and SparkleShare[2] are GPLv3 licensed.
(Although their source code are hosted on github.)

BTW what does "2.5" mean?

[1] http://seafile.com/en/home/
[2] http://sparkleshare.org/

-- 
Xue Fuqiao
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[chad]

On 18 Mar 2013, at 01:05, Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 00:28:26 -0700
> chad <yandros@MIT.EDU> wrote:
> 
>> Sadly, the 2.5 free dropbox-alikes I know about have all gone nowhere
>> in the past couple years.
> 
> It seems that Seafile[1] and SparkleShare[2] are GPLv3 licensed.
> (Although their source code are hosted on github.)

Sparkleshare is heavily leveraged on git, which is interesting, but
it probably doesn't help this use case (posting emacs canary builds
for public download) at all, since it's self-hosted. Seafile might also
have this property - I wasn't entirely clear from my quick reading if
they had a non-self-hosted free-as-in-beer option.

> BTW what does "2.5" mean?

Two and a half projects; I was speaking too loosely.  Sorry about
that.

Most of the projects I knew about where more interested in improving
dropbox's (basically terrible) security model, and were interested in
SUNDR.

	http://cs.nyu.edu/web/Research/TechReports/TR2003-841/TR2003-841.pdf

Searching for recent references turns up an archive of a very similar
conversation on this list last May.  Sorry to be repetitive. :-)

~Chad

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Xue Fuqiao]

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 02:25:14 -0700
chad <yandros@MIT.EDU> wrote:
> >> Sadly, the 2.5 free dropbox-alikes I know about have all gone nowhere
> >> in the past couple years.

> > It seems that Seafile[1] and SparkleShare[2] are GPLv3 licensed.
> > (Although their source code are hosted on github.)

> Sparkleshare is heavily leveraged on git, which is interesting, but
> it probably doesn't help this use case (posting emacs canary builds
> for public download) at all, since it's self-hosted. Seafile might also
> have this property - I wasn't entirely clear from my quick reading if
> they had a non-self-hosted free-as-in-beer option.

You are right.  GNU ftp server and its mirrors are the best places in
this case.

> > BTW what does "2.5" mean?
> 
> Two and a half projects; I was speaking too loosely.

I see, thanks.

-- 
Xue Fuqiao
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 19:43:27 -0600
> From: Christoph <cschol2112@gmail.com>
> 
> Sorry guys, I had to completely take some time off from any side projects
> for personal matters, but things are looking better now.

No need to apologize.

> Is there still the desire to host the Windows binaries on the GNU
> server?

Yes.

> If yes, there are two options: 1.) I (or Miguel?) could upload Miguels
> build to the GNU server or 2.) I could build the 24.3 like I did with 24.1
> and 24.2 and upload it.

It's up to you two, whatever is easier and more convenient will do.
Thanks.

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Richard Stallman]

    I make frequent use of dropbox, without ever visiting their web
    site.  Of course, dropbox itself uses nonfree code on both the
    server and client, so that may not matter to you.

I don't understand what that means, in concrete terms,
about what software is needed to use dropbox.
I'll write to you privately for more explanation.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Christoph]

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I have uploaded the Windows binaries for version 24.3 to the GNU server.

For this release I used my own build script that was used to build all
releases in the 24.x series so far.

I will get in contact with Miguel and see if we can work something out for
weekly builds and the official releases to not use Dropbox but the GNU
server.

Christoph

On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:


> > Is there still the desire to host the Windows binaries on the GNU
> > server?
>
> Yes.
>
> > If yes, there are two options: 1.) I (or Miguel?) could upload Miguels
> > build to the GNU server or 2.) I could build the 24.3 like I did with
> 24.1
> > and 24.2 and upload it.
>
> It's up to you two, whatever is easier and more convenient will do.
> Thanks.
>

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Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:56:41 -0600
> From: Christoph <cschol2112@gmail.com>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rgm@gnu.org, 
> 	Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> 
> I have uploaded the Windows binaries for version 24.3 to the GNU server.

Thanks.

> For this release I used my own build script that was used to build all
> releases in the 24.x series so far.

Please note that it is best to use the same versions of header files
for optional libraries that were used for building those optional
libraries.  In this case, you used zlib-1.2.5-2, while libxml2 and
GnuTLS were linked against zlib-1.2.3, as can be seen here:

  http://sourceforge.net/projects/ezwinports/files/Dependencies/

zlib is normally extremely compatible with past versions, but better
safe than sorry...

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[chad]

For what it's worth, I just fielded a question from a friend who
read README.W32, downloaded the libraries from ezwinports (thanks,
Eli!), but then wasn't sure what to do with them.  I barely ever
use Windows, so while I was able to help my friend get a working
emacs, I'm not at all sure that my advice (pull the interesting
.dll files out of the zipfiles and put them in emacs/bin) was the
right solution.

The relevant line from README.W32 seems to be:

	Emacs will find them if the directory they are installed in is on 
	the PATH. 
 
For the purpose of things like gnutls and libxml, does `install'
mean `unzip'? Is there a recommended place to put things like these
if you want them only for running emacs?  Are the other zipfile
contents (include, share, lib, and the rest of bin) necessary or
useful to someone who's just looking to run emacs?

I'm asking here rather than a help channel in the hope that I'll
be able to compile the responses and suggest a documentation change,
if one is warranted.

Thanks in advance,
~Chad

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: chad <yandros@MIT.EDU>
> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 15:41:50 -0700
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> 
> For what it's worth, I just fielded a question from a friend who
> read README.W32, downloaded the libraries from ezwinports (thanks,
> Eli!), but then wasn't sure what to do with them.  I barely ever
> use Windows, so while I was able to help my friend get a working
> emacs, I'm not at all sure that my advice (pull the interesting
> .dll files out of the zipfiles and put them in emacs/bin) was the
> right solution.

It is one possibility, yes, although then most probably only Emacs
will be able to use them (unless Emacs's bin directory is on PATH).

> For the purpose of things like gnutls and libxml, does `install'
> mean `unzip'?

They are provided as .zip files, so what else could that mean?

> Is there a recommended place to put things like these
> if you want them only for running emacs?

Like you told your friend.  But I rather recommend installing them in
a public place, with things in bin being placed on PATH.

> Are the other zipfile contents (include, share, lib, and the rest of
> bin) necessary or useful to someone who's just looking to run emacs?

I don't exactly understand what that means (e.g., are programs run
_from_ Emacs of interest for such a person?), and I don't see why
would someone care enough to try to install only portions of those
distros.  Just install everything and be done -- it's both easier and
faster, and will make sure that whatever package needs these libraries
will find them.  For example, your friend might want the documentation
files if he/she wants to customize one of the packages for whatever
reasons.

> I'm asking here rather than a help channel in the hope that I'll
> be able to compile the responses and suggest a documentation change,
> if one is warranted.

The above is actually common knowledge for Windows users, which is why
there's nothing about installation on the ezwinports site.  The zip
files are structured such that everything should "just work" once
unzipped.

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Stephen Leake]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> <snip discussion of "where to install dlls">
>
> The above is actually common knowledge for Windows users, 

No, it's only common knowledge among Windows developers. My mother is a
typical Windows user; she has _no_ idea what a dll is, nor what to do
with it.

But we are discussing users of Emacs on Windows, which is a tiny subset
of Windows users. I don't know what a typical Emacs user (Windows or
otherwise) knows about shared libraries in general, but there's no harm
in assuming they know nothing.

In installation instructions, it is certainly appropriate to state
something like:
    
    unzip the archive, place the resulting .../bin in PATH

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: Emacs 24.3 windows binaries are available

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stephen Leake <stephen_leake@member.fsf.org>
> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 03:00:06 -0400
> 
> > The above is actually common knowledge for Windows users, 
> 
> No, it's only common knowledge among Windows developers. My mother is a
> typical Windows user; she has _no_ idea what a dll is, nor what to do
> with it.
> 
> But we are discussing users of Emacs on Windows, which is a tiny subset
> of Windows users. I don't know what a typical Emacs user (Windows or
> otherwise) knows about shared libraries in general, but there's no harm
> in assuming they know nothing.
> 
> In installation instructions, it is certainly appropriate to state
> something like:
>     
>     unzip the archive, place the resulting .../bin in PATH

Thanks.  I took the advice and updated the README there with some
simple installation instructions.