From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Pip Cet Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: sqlite3 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 11:19:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87tufmjyai.fsf@gnus.org> <877dcil2sj.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87czm98qi1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o85tcwm0.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <874k7ljwkr.fsf@gnus.org> <87fsr5cuzq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <878rwx8mdn.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1aphuei.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnke4p21.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl1p2t91.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38069"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: eric@ericabrahamsen.net, cesar mena , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 10 12:21:22 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mvdxp-0009gf-Qx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 12:21:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52110 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvdxn-0001cg-9W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 06:21:19 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43500) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvdwh-0000vr-U8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 06:20:13 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a00:1450:4864:20::129] (port=43821 helo=mail-lf1-x129.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvdwg-0004Be-Bt; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 06:20:11 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x129.google.com with SMTP id b40so17392807lfv.10; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 03:20:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0sDLOvad/4PPhdb2piCgyXytq3g4Dql5S9JRly1tlGQ=; b=kbfQHASwReX3Wo2vuzt1QFfbtpT/bnFT7XONtpzFQCiWC6i0QwIZzUYbfVCIlXFGIr vlMprePlkAt0dM3+/ROO6gGy6frZ8JZkVUD7QywBpNFC08Eno4gHZpSNaSAslrXXqoCK rgHKDPpludPXUaBf1AaKuCyfML6mgojQxC1QmwI2vJAMtbSU+fdwaKnkfM7821ggaZgL Md3OBLING4VZ0zWUmQmuuS5Nd3dp6nkgF5UhvsVipN3qv6JPXjCnokUAEWV2UviFJ6qQ cStbLMJuWtZU3QSEBKSsHwNetPdNLePuV6g0FwHTeFj0HfOG0rdbJ96J3+eGpnuHqYEa vhdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0sDLOvad/4PPhdb2piCgyXytq3g4Dql5S9JRly1tlGQ=; b=biEVrjuitztFhfhkDTKzfIR8M/VZ2jxLo4jXnxjSP3ugIBWy3WPcCaOB7nUWQgrGK3 Gvwv9qTAazCHpmBNHI86V5MHl50vJivdD6YjK1ZQImNeAl5b3bw1DT5VM41YmLJO1trI FM720fQ+gs5tV0DfOWIfPc6ryN4E8I50x/lm75EqOaGYi8wjrYXIPZjW+h1bbzOjnJoT c/Wdq4ukUm1ZhVtCmtOlSHXakrF89d0npts/qcjCtv7WkwywdN4338/bjBZaFr4ZZPUV 7oEjjLrrZm0s1EG90ZIES6uh592bRlkfBq2T82LLuWgO8rlJs6c8c+hPvFF1ngdGPYPY 2UiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531XOXjdgcoQ+uU02HOywJzXeptDxfNElGqfD0CsJnfOZvFQcAxd F5N9N2rkMidN3AxqU35eoAaEtI5FyuoyTW4WAVI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyvBO0eIEFJUaZ3HFqfDFrSANqKRwNM7+njOPjp6IcMEGVurjH9hW21oMblHAXRbhfNKvN8ZPzhHr1Mtv3+sxU= X-Received: by 2002:a19:6754:: with SMTP id e20mr11247102lfj.122.1639135206917; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 03:20:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87bl1p2t91.fsf@gnus.org> X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::129 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::129; envelope-from=pipcet@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x129.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:281585 Archived-At: On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 12:33 AM Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Pip Cet writes: > > I agree that .newsrc.eld and the Gnus registry, as you describe them, > > have problems that need to be fixed. Making those permanently > > unfixable by switching to a binary-only format seems like a bad idea > > to me, unless there are overwhelming advantages that I'm just failing > > to see so far. > > "Need to be fixed"? Yes. Not particularly urgently, since Emacs has so many long-standing issues. > They've been like this for three decades now, and > it's amusing how they suddenly "need" to be fixed when they're brought > up as an example for how textual data isn't really a panacea for > editability, diffing, etc. I agree, of course, that it's not a panacea. It's easy to get text formats wrong, and when one does, they need to be fixed. > The Gnus data is edited within Gnus, because editing the data outside of > Gnus will lead to breakage. How were you planning, assuming you want to migrate it to sqlite, to encourage people to follow that suggestion? I think "editing this file will most likely break things" is something that should be communicated to users who have somehow started looking at an sqlite file, and I'm not sure how they'd know. Again, I never said that all text formats are, by virtue of being text-based, readily editable, diffable, etc. What I said is that this particular binary format isn't. > >> Putting it in VC is meaningless. > > > > How so? I usually have my home directory under version control, and > > git's xdelta implementation should deal with alists just fine (and > > produce readable output at sub-line granularity)... > > It's meaningless because you can't really do anything with that > information. Yes, I can. Not necessarily as much as I'd like to :-) > >> course) Emacs will come with a mode to inspect and edit these files more > >> free-form. > > > > Indeed, I would have considered it a good idea to introduce such a > > mode well before proposing (as you might or might not have done) that > > random packages start using a new library. > > Er... I should have written a new library to allow editing SQLite files > before starting a discussion about whether Emacs should have in-core > SQLite support. Check. I believe others have pointed out quite clearly that two proposals have become quite mixed up here, at least in my mind. If it's clear to you you weren't proposing to use sqlite3 as Emacs's persistent key-value store, I must have misread the first message. > (For instance, my imdb mode stashes about 12GB worth of data in sqlite > and is simple and performant.) Thanks for the example. Pip