From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Adam Porter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: plz Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 02:53:29 -0500 Message-ID: References: <874k1vzyom.fsf@posteo.net> <104ffa6b-12ae-53df-e289-aba7d7200654@alphapapa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dafc7005df0856d3" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5082"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Philip Kaludercic , mardani29@yahoo.es, emacs-devel To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 15 10:05:57 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nq9GF-00019A-Vq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 15 May 2022 10:05:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59560 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nq9GE-0002BG-NB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 15 May 2022 04:05:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38116) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nq9Di-0000wF-V9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 May 2022 04:03:18 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-f49.google.com ([209.85.221.49]:38716) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nq9Dh-00030Z-3m; Sun, 15 May 2022 04:03:18 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-f49.google.com with SMTP id k30so4017297wrd.5; Sun, 15 May 2022 01:03:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=L21yghJKhdq8/xxRP9GMChGiaS9mLNDFQusQCobsT7A=; b=GUGxD4I9QYU7FfhPAbO5w4IrMwnySgSEudnbKU1VTuRI1wO+BTV0/KgqHA9XxzW3KR 3QlcdX/KjcX+u5WGW5HyX80sZtZieENS36nZeNwUo7vGCTovqtdT5x1t7WARhDgQiH3U Y7+IGu4o8ysAGf1eBrmR1Fg4JrWasVeGVS6hCKjXLDfPyT54wMlKSffOTBn5izHJS18l iFKGU5cvOY8/iCtSXPAPHrOGf7rjkBJMU4QUvTaQz3HpeWUTuClH0wCCp1rh5EAcBQyg SV3R7YP5/FTPAU3FLne5F1Nc+Yj6ibUHnc00z4oD4IKOL1xx4c/fYXwzNBBgJi5Kpvoz QTqg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531RLlEustBzjr083OtO4Ru9sQ/WL6ley+LsgSafxseX34cLI6W3 3eBhfjMYDFFf+0+oy+i9kerC0sRN2ETmWoBIcWrnD568 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzZlepqtZF8hlvjNPZY5BxqINqn7jyiZNAVDoNcvsAbLHUqhx93YedziKkoFD7ZG2FARUY/Do5BXbqT7O1+kWI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1ac7:b0:20c:6c81:175d with SMTP id i7-20020a0560001ac700b0020c6c81175dmr9919682wry.262.1652601793476; Sun, 15 May 2022 01:03:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.221.49; envelope-from=alphadeltapapa@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-f49.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:289792 Archived-At: --000000000000dafc7005df0856d3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, May 14, 2022, 18:58 Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > And I think it doesn't matter here: if someone wonders what plz.el > does, > > they can "C-h P plz RET" and find out. And if someone is looking for > an > > HTTP library, they can "M-x list-packages RET / d http RET" and find > some. > > That is true -- but that only goes one way, from thinking about the > name "plz" to trying to use it. It does not help people go in the > other direction, from an idea of doing something to thinking about using > this one library. > I meant that searching the packages list by description would find libraries related to HTTP. I think this is okay, because purely descriptive names tend to get long and unwieldy. They also tend to be less memorable and distinctive in the long run. > The number of unclear package names in Emacs is a big problem (epa, > eww, mml are a few examples out of many). They are neither helpful > nor funny, and they make those pakages undiscoverable. > > Let's not add any more of those. > I wouldn't propose merging a library into emacs.git with a cutesy name. I agree that the names of core libraries should generally be descriptive and straightforward. OTOH, naming things is hard, and in this case, the obvious, descriptive names are already taken. So I think that a longer, drier, purely descriptive name would be less desirable for an ELPA package. If I may say so, I also think that having lightly opinionated packages with distinctive identities, and sometimes with mildly amusing names, can help authors feel a sense of pride in their work, which can be motivating, resulting in more and higher quality work, which ultimately benefits the users. Of course, there is much value in having code in core rather than in add-on packages, but at the same time, something can be lost when a project is absorbed into a larger whole. A balance to be struck; a time for everything; etc. My two cents. :) > --000000000000dafc7005df0856d3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, May 14, 2022, 18:58 Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]<= br>
=C2=A0 > And I think it doesn't matter here: if someone wonders what= plz.el does,
=C2=A0 > they can "C-h P plz RET" and find out.=C2=A0 And if s= omeone is looking for an
=C2=A0 > HTTP library, they can "M-x list-packages RET / d http RET= " and find some.

That is true -- but that only goes one way, from thinking about the
name "plz" to trying to use it.=C2=A0 It does not help people go = in the
other direction, from an idea of doing something to thinking about using this one library.

<= div dir=3D"auto">I meant that searching the packages list by description wo= uld find libraries related to HTTP.=C2=A0 I think this is okay, because pur= ely descriptive names tend to get long and unwieldy. They also tend to be l= ess memorable and distinctive in the long run.=C2=A0

The number of unclear package names i= n Emacs is a big problem (epa,
eww, mml are a few examples out of many).=C2=A0 They are neither helpful nor funny, and they make those pakages undiscoverable.

Let's not add any more of those.

I wouldn't propose merging a libr= ary into emacs.git with a cutesy name. I agree that the names of core libra= ries should generally be descriptive and straightforward.

OTOH, naming things is hard, and in this = case, the obvious, descriptive names are already taken. So I think that a l= onger, drier, purely descriptive name would be less desirable for an ELPA p= ackage.=C2=A0

If I may s= ay so, I also think that having lightly opinionated packages with distincti= ve identities, and sometimes with mildly amusing names, can help authors fe= el a sense of pride in their work, which can be motivating, resulting in mo= re and higher quality work, which ultimately benefits the users. Of course,= there is much value in having code in core rather than in add-on packages,= but at the same time, something can be lost when a project is absorbed int= o a larger whole. A balance to be struck; a time for everything; etc.
=

My two cents. :)
--000000000000dafc7005df0856d3--